Dodge RamCharger Central banner

93 cummins- high miles- 3200 rpm spring good idea?

8.4K views 13 replies 10 participants last post by  deathrowdave  
#1 ·
1993 W250- 298,000 miles with weepy head gasket in winter and stock OEM, tired injection pump and injectors. Has a HX35 that goes to 17 psi boost with wastegate set conservatively.  Advanced timing and small fuel screw turn. 

Bad idea to install 3200 spring- ie is it asking for a blown head gasket or worse carnage? 

Been traumatized by John Deere's warnings in all their service manuals as a kid about adjusting their pumps.....
 
#2 ·
Not sure its a good idea... but I might do it anyway.  ;D
 
#3 ·
the bottom end is where I'd be concerned . you may be much better off doing an in frame major , then turning it up .  In my experience cummins parts are more expensive than J.D.  ( cummins north east isn't cheap , even for onan parts ) so best not to destroy them .
 
#4 ·
All the 3200 spring will do is allow the engine to spin about 500rpm faster before it defuels. So I doubt your engine will be in danger from higher rpms. Now higher boost is a different matter, I wouldn't trust the head gasket to stay intact with higher boost.

You should seriously consider replacing that head gasket soon….and while the head is off, check the cylinder bores and look to see if theres any cross hatch left, and tab that KDP. You may discover that the crosshatch is still there, even with this many miles and the engine would still has plenty of life left in it. It's not too uncommon for these things to hit 500K (so long as it's well maintained)

I don't know why you would have advanced the timing and turn up the fuel, only to set the waste gate at 17PSI. If you wanted more power, you got the fuel, and it's being injected earlier, but at 17PSI theres not a lot of air to burn it. I wouldn't be surprised if it smokes like a freight train and pulls a little weak off the line
If that IP is weak, you should have it rebuilt or the truck will strand you somewhere. Same goes with injectors. You now have the perfect opportunity to make a few improvements. The 3200GSK is a good mod, but instead of advancing the timing (Pump to the head) put the IP back in the original timing position and pick up a dynamic timing advance from M&H. This will allow your engine to pull hard at low rpm, and pull strong in the higher rpms and will complement that new 3200rpm gov spring. While you're in the pump, at least turn the fuel pin about 90 degrees or get yourself an aftermarket fuel pin. Get some injectors for that thing. Some people will suggest PODs or Marine injectors. Do some shopping here and make some calls. For reference, I went with 5X.012s  Thats about the next size up from the stock 1st gen non-IC 9mm injectors (and approx equal to a POD on a 1st gen 7mm injector)

You have one of the better turbos for the 1st gens. Fix that head gasket leak and set that boost higher. Start at 30PSI and go up if you need to. With those mods, that engine should wake up and it won't kill it or reduce it's lifespan

Ed
 
#5 ·
RXT hit it on the head,

Bottom end is usually a non issue, but new rod and main bearings may not hurt. There's a reason common rail guys use 12v rods when they want to handle over 800 hp!!

I was going to add, if your looking for more RPM, simply opening up the passages in the banjo bolts in the fuel system will gain you several hundred, that and making sure your throttle is opening all the way.

I ran 3/8 lines for supply, ditched stock filter and used a CAT 1R0750. It's amazing what a bit more fuel flow will do.

Larger injectors also give the feeling of more top end pull.

I have over 300k on mine fed 45psi daily. Head has never been off

 
#6 ·
PO advanced the timing before I got it. I assume the pump is weak b/c when its summer and hot, the idle is noticeably lower. I already have a set of injectors (stock 93s) for replacement, but need them tested. KDP is done.

Does not smoke at all now. Oil analysis comes back clean. Starts on 1st turn of starter, even if cold out. Did experience a catastrophic turbo failure with PO so severe, shrapnel was stuck in the intercooler. Initial oil change showed high aluminum and lead/copper/iron but settled down.

Already been thru linkage to make sure I've got full travel
http://ramchargercentral.com/mopar-trucks/addict-1993-w250-ctd-club-cab/50/
 
#7 ·
sounds to me like the engine would benefit for a basic re-torque of the head bolts - 135 lbs on all but the shorties along the exhaust side - those go to 125 lbs (according to Mark at Dieseltuff).  I've seen 'sweaty' head gasket seal back up after a re-torque {cool}.

As far as the 3200 spring - no worries there.  All you'll gain is 'more fuel for the given amount of throttle' - meaning after the heavier 3200 spring is installed you'll have more fuel at half throttle than you had with the stock spring at half throttle....and as was mentioned you'll gain some rpm potential and also some top end speed as a result of the increased fueling - but all of that is still based on your right foot so you still 'control' the fueling throughout.

Essentially after the spring is in, the truck will require 'less' pedal to do the same work as it needed before.

I say definitely re-torque the head bolts, and definitely to the spring {cool}
 
#8 ·
jerseybud said:
PO advanced the timing before I got it. I assume the pump is weak b/c when its summer and hot, the idle is noticeably lower.
With the timing advanced, the high end will be great at the expense of the bottom end which is likely to feel a bit weaker. This is why I suggested you put the timing back to original and install a dynamic timing advance from M&H. It's an easy item to install, not expensive, and gives you great bottom end pull and allows more advance than stock to allow better high end performance.

I already have a set of injectors (stock 93s) for replacement, but need them tested.
Factory injectors aren't that great if you're looking for more power. The most you can do is have the injectors honed for more fuel.

I'd still look at upping the waste gate to about 30psi, after you address the weak head gasket.

Ed
 
#9 ·
Check out powerdrivendiesel.com for fuel injectors.  they have about the most reasonably priced injectors on the market.  They are super nice guys and will talk your ear off.  guys over on cummins forum rave and rave about all of their products.  I have a set of their delivery valves for my truck.
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
I may be a little late to the party bu...

As mentioned above, it would be good to replace the head gasket or at least re torque the head bolts.

A 3200 spring would be fine to do and a welcome improvement, not just in top end RPM but throttle response.

As for injectors, you dont want PODs or marine injectors in your 93. Marines are a good choice for the non intercooled engines but 91.5-93 engines have a difference piston bowl and the angle is wrong.

The Hungry Diesel is the best place for first gen stuff. Eric specializes in first gens. So if you decide to get injectors, I would strongly recommend THD. Prices are good too. If you dont have an aftermarket fuel pin, the THD pin is also an improvement and will go nicely with a 3200 gov spring.
 
#12 ·
Unfortunately I'm sending my 93 to the shop for some work. 170Kmiles and the rear main is leaking, flexplate is loose ( I have a new one) and I want him to tune it for more power.

I dropped in a fuel pin already but never got to the 3200 spring. (got them from https://www.alligatorperformance.com/manufacturer-bd_diesel?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI84aCk93D2AIVAksNCh1ihwjkEAAYAiAAEgKEVfD_BwE ) He's gonna do that, check the pump timing, tweak the fuel screw a little and whatever else he can to give me more power as it sits without the injectors. I'll do the injectors this spring. 13mpg sucks! and the power level is way lower than my old 90 and it got 14mpg with a 3speed trans. With the same amount of weight/cap on the truck, just the 93 is a club cab. I'm not sure I understand this when my father inlaw's D250 standard cab 89 got 20mpg and ran better than the 93 does.

I guess we'll see after the upgrades. ;D

Didn't mean to hijack your tread sorry. ;D
 
#13 ·
I just got my 93 back from the shop. 5* pump tweak, 3200 spring, had the fuel pin, fuel screw tweak, DANG it woke that truck up! :eek:

Of course mine only has 170K on it. ;)

Now I'm thinking 40HP injectors, and a smaller turbo. :eek:
 
#14 ·
I ran a worn out a 4BT for many years with a 3200 spring , fuel pin , and top end fuel screw adjustment . If you have never been inside a Cummins you have a shock when you open one up for repairs . It is build as a tank is built . You installing a few mild options isn’t going to do a thing to the bottom end of a 170K engine . Just a reminder that a steel ball can be destroyed in a rubber room with the correct person . Don’t think your going to the pulls and it will not break , because it will break Big when over assed many times it’s design . This all spells major $$$$ to repair .