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Great article.  I've wondered since this story broke if anyone had "done the math" to determine if the cars with the emission defeats (and I'm assuming worse economy) would actually create more emissions than the vehicles with that were "dirtier" according to the EPA and just about every article I've read.

At some point the EPA and CARB will need to be put in check.  As this article stated, they've long been doing things to justify their existence. 

Nice find.
 

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The scandal is that they purposefully bypassed the laws for a couple of mpg and profit. Gas vehicles could do the same. It wouldn't have made a big impact on their profits with minimally lower power and economy that complied with the law.
 

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I'm not sure what the point is of that article....regulations should not be enforced if they are only "slightly" violated?
 

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{popcorn} {popcorn} {popcorn} {popcorn}
 

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Kinda almost makes me want one.
 

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Can't wait to see what the Fed is going to tell us owners to do.
 

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Where can I get that program for my Dodges?
 

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As far as I can tell this is the same thing that a lot of diesels owners do when they use the different programmers on their trucks. Why all the butt hurt over it?
 

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Well, it's against the law so VW deserves whatever punishment they get for it.  I may not agree with the EPA and it laws, or a lot of other laws for that matter, but you can't ignore them and you can't think you are above them.  The law is the law.

If nothing else this answers the question about how VW was always able to get their small diesels to pass emissions when others never could for very long.
 

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Elwenil said:
If nothing else this answers the question about how VW was always able to get their small diesels to pass emissions when others never could for very long.
It appears to affect just the "new" design (common rail). The older engines met emissions, although the NOx limits were a little lower I think and performance and mileage not as good. I think they just set unrealistic goals. They wanted power and mileage.

My 2001 Jetta with 90 hp/155 tq gets up to 49 mpg hwy (ugh so frustrating I can't break 50!!! lol).
My friend's 2015 has 155 hp/236 tq and he gets up to 57 mpg (EPA estimates 46).

So I knew there had to be some voodoo going on, but I never thought it would be cheating the emissions!
 

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Elwenil said:
Well, it's against the law so VW deserves whatever punishment they get for it. I may not agree with the EPA and it laws, or a lot of other laws for that matter, but you can't ignore them and you can't think you are above them. The law is the law.

If nothing else this answers the question about how VW was always able to get their small diesels to pass emissions when others never could for very long.
But it is okay for Joe citizen to circumvent the law by doing the same thing to his Diesel truck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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PowerWagonPete said:
Kind of like that "UNDER PENALTY OF LAW THIS TAG NOT TO BE REMOVED EXCEPT BY THE CONSUMER" thing, Greg...
Not really "kind of like". It is still technically illegal to remove emission controls. If you don't have testing required in your area, it is unlikely you'll ever get caught, but it is still illegal.
 

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gmule said:
But it is okay for Joe citizen to circumvent the law by doing the same thing to his Diesel truck!
that's why they do emissions testing and inspection.
 

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Doc, I didn't realize the older TDI's met emissions laws in USA. I thought VW pulled out of the diesel market in USA because the 1.9 could not meet the newer emission laws, and only came back to market in '09 when they had a TDI that, supposedly, could.

You and your friend are doing better than me. My'10 has done as well as 46mpg while running 75, on a long interstate trip. But it's usually 40mpg or a little less. Never done a jailbreak with a tuner.

And yes, a lawsuit is something I'd look at joining. I paid more for this TDI back then, on the agreement that my $$$ was paying for a 40+mpg vehicle that would legally meet all state/fed EPA requirements. Paid a good bit more than for a comparable gasser, even with the tax rebate. If the "fix" to this cheat lowers my mpg very much, I'm going to want some of that purchase price back. Going to be interesting if the fix will simply be software rewrite, or some hardware too.
 

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ToxicDoc said:
It appears to affect just the "new" design (common rail). The older engines met emissions, although the NOx limits were a little lower I think and performance and mileage not as good. I think they just set unrealistic goals. They wanted power and mileage.

My 2001 Jetta with 90 hp/155 tq gets up to 49 mpg hwy (ugh so frustrating I can't break 50!!! lol).
My friend's 2015 has 155 hp/236 tq and he gets up to 57 mpg (EPA estimates 46).
This is exactly what I thought. Interesting that you mentioned that. The old diesels didn't see the mpg like overseas- due to the stringent laws that honestly- I've not heard of many peoples' gas hybrids reaching. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear of another round of this on many hybrids since those've been creeping up beyond usual too.

Yes, I'll agree- they're setting unrealistic mileage limitations for their emissions restrictions.
 

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jcruse64 said:
Doc, I didn't realize the older TDI's met emissions laws in USA. I thought VW pulled out of the diesel market in USA because the 1.9 could not meet the newer emission laws, and only came back to market in '09 when they had a TDI that, supposedly, could.

You and your friend are doing better than me. My'10 has done as well as 46mpg while running 75, on a long interstate trip. But it's usually 40mpg or a little less. Never done a jailbreak with a tuner.

And yes, a lawsuit is something I'd look at joining. I paid more for this TDI back then, on the agreement that my $$$ was paying for a 40+mpg vehicle that would legally meet all state/fed EPA requirements. Paid a good bit more than for a comparable gasser, even with the tax rebate. If the "fix" to this cheat lowers my mpg very much, I'm going to want some of that purchase price back. Going to be interesting if the fix will simply be software rewrite, or some hardware too.
The Feds started adding progressively stringent NOx and particulate requirements from 2004 through 2009. So the earlier diesels were easier to pass the requirements. Sales were still limited to only a few thousand a year by the Feds knowing there were still unregulated emissions issues. Once they implemented the new regs, they allowed more sales (now I think 15% of VW sales in the US) under the premise the vehicles actually met the standards.

My advice, DO NOT get any fix and DO NOT bring your vehicle ever to the dealer for a "repair" of this issue until the day you want to sell it. Any fix will screw you over in power and mileage.
 
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