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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I just had to post this. My wife and I own a `95 supercharged 5.0 liter Mustang Cobra that she inherited from her father when he passed away nearly two years ago. Now being a
Mopar man, I grudgingly admitted that this was kind of a cool car. Well, we don't really drive it much, we keep it garaged and only bring it out on sunny days in the warm months, never during the winter. And I usually have her in the car with me when we do go for our "Sunday drives" so I have to behave myself behind the wheel. Well anyway, I drove it to work for the first time today, and took a coworker with me in it to lunch. On the way back to work I took a back road and for a short distance, I really opened it up kind of for the first time. Or at least further than I had ever before. Well, needless to say, it really throws you back into your seat. My hands are still shaking from the adrenaline rush of driving that car. This is a combination of both exhilaration and fear. The thrill of acceleration, and the fear of having a cop catch me in the midst of indulging this irresistable temptation, and the extreme consequences thereof. Upon reflecting on all this, I thought: if a relatively "small" block V8 can "wake up" so much with a supercharger on it, think of how a mopar 440 big block would respond? "Ludicrous speed" is the term that comes to mind. Has anyone here ever had experience with a supercharger on a Mopar big block? I thought I remembered MoparMudder saying he had done this. Anyone care to share their story?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Anyone want to talk about the pros and cons of turbochargers vs. superchargers? As I understand it, superchargers give you a more immediate response, and a greater boost at lower RPM than turbos. In fact, isn't the power boost from a supercharger pretty even across the entire RPM spread? Turbos have a delay wating for them to spool up, and are less effiecient (like comparing slippage in an auto tranny vs the solid lock up of a standard.) So why are turbos so much more popular? I'd appreciate it if anyone here can enlighten me, `cause it seems to me that superchargers hold more benefits.
 

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argh, here we go again.

turbos are more efficient, create less heat, use less hp, make more boost.

the benifit of a supercharger is it can easily be run with carbs and more often comes in a bolt on kit.
 

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try the 5 g acceleration of 1200 hp in a 3200 lb, 10" tire car that hooks almost too well.......1.21 sec 60 ft times

I've ridden in this car...we are gonna have to put setscrews on the tach...every other pass, it comes out of the mounting bracket (tightened fully down) and lands in his lap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
joe swinehart said:
argh, here we go again.

turbos are more efficient, create less heat, use less hp, make more boost.
Excuse me, but you're going to have to do better than that to convince me of these claims. I'm not going to believe this until someone shows some convincing technical data, reasons why, etc. What is it that is so fundamentally different between a turbo and a supercharger that makes it, as you claim, more efficient, creates less heat, makes more boost, etc. Nothing personal, I'm just skeptical about what your asserting. :)

P.S. I'm logging off now, and I may not be able to check back on this thread until Sunday night, but I am very much interested in hearing all of your responses. Please don't let this thread die in my absence. "I'll be back" 8)
 

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Well, as was said, the turbo uses wasted power, or what would be wasted in a supercharged engine. On a supercharged engine, the exhaust gases just go out the pipe, along with all the energy encompassed in it's temperature & entropy (lets say flow for this discussion). A turbo uses this temp & entropy/flow to drive it, and therefore, when the exhaust gases are used this way, a good portion of the combustion energy that was used to heat the gases is recovered. It just goes out the tail pipe in a supercharged engine. Wasted.

Heat loss is one of the main reasons an internal combustion engine is so inefficient. By recovering some of that heat that is normally wasted (exhaust gas energy), the over all efficiency of the engine goes up. You can not do this with a supercharger. Yes, HP will go up, but so will the heat produced, which also increases it's inefficiency.

Ok, a supercharger is always turning, and is direct driven, as it is always sucking HP and always increasing the heat output of the engine. I say this because to make the power needed to turn it, requires more fuel/air to be burned in the combustion chamber, and therefore, more heat produced, which in this application, is gonna go right out the ass end.

Now, on a turbo, which is not direct driven, the only thing that drives it is the flow of exhaust gas thru it. This exhaust gas is gonna be there no matter what, so why not use it ??? No extra hp has to be made to turn it, and no extra drag on the engine is there, so it is more efficient.

If you were to build an engine and dyno it, it'd make a given hp @ idle right ??

Well, now put a supercharger on the same engine, and see what it makes at idle. It will most times make less hp, because at that low rpm, the boost is not enough to make up for the extra drag on the engine. Keep in mind, this is at idle, where the boost is not significant.

Now, do the same thing, but take the supercharger off, and put a turbo on it. It will make the same hp as it did originally, cuz the turbo isn't making boost yet either, and it isn't sucking power out of the engine like the supercharger is. Again, keep in mind, this is at idle, where the boost is not significant.

You have to look at the overall picture to see why a turbo is more efficient. Yes, it has lag due to spool up, but it does not increase the parasitic drag on the engine either. A turbo'd engine does run cooler, because a good part of the heat & energy from the exhaust is used to power it, not the engine itself. Both engines waste heat thru the cooling system, and both waste heat thru the exhaust, It's just that one wastes more than the other thru the exhaust. The turbo engine will run slightly cooler for a given hp, because the engine (heat producer) has less drag on it (remember the supercharger that is direct driven ??).

And for a given hp, the turbo will be more efficient not only in the heat/energy arena, but also in the mpg arena. Remember, the exhaust is gonna be there no matter what at a given power level, but if you re-use that exhaust energy to drive your power adder, you will save the extra fuel needed to turn the supercharger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Okay, one quick comment and then I'm gone until Sunday. You can't get something for nothing. The turbo charger is causing a backpressure on the exhaust in order to derive a mechanical torque from the turbine to drive the compressor. So your still getting "parasitic losses" as you mentioned. And the exhaust gas flow moving the turbine is not going to be 100% efficient either, there will be slippage, Whereas the supercharger has a directly proportional hook up to engine speed, no slippage, thus my analogy to auto and manual trannies. I agree with your that the thermal effieciency of IC engines is a ratio of the actual usable mechanical work output of the engine compared to the total chemical energy potential before combustion, and the difference is the waste heat generated, and if you can regain some of that lost heat energy by turning it back into mechanical energy, then you are getting back some of that lost power, but just remember that it comes at the cost of backpressure on the engine which is a load on the engine just like the superchargers direct drive. Okay gotta go, great discussion, sorry if some of this sounds a little scrambled, I'm in a hurry, I'll check back on Sunday.
 

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how would you like to see the fact that you were already on a fine line by giving that dumbass access to your account so he could spam the board, and you could never be a part of this site again.

Tell you what patrick, when you build your "dream" truck, as long as you do it while humans still exist, I know a guy that will race you in a 4 banger honda for pink slips. But since we know you will never build it, I will race you, my bike vs your bike.
 
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RCC_SaMiaM said:
how would you like to see the fact that you were already on a fine line by giving that dumbass access to your account so he could spam the board, and you could never be a part of this site again.

Tell you what patrick, when you build your "dream" truck, as long as you do it while humans still exist, I know a guy that will race you in a 4 banger honda for pink slips. But since we know you will never build it, I will race you, my bike vs your bike.
I like living Life on the edge. I never did bring up anything about that. Pink slips? Thats so original.

Patrick

As you have noticed i really don't give a damn anymore. I could care less about your childish games.
 

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i would like to say.V8s sucks 4 bangers suck,turbos suck, blowers suck,NAWWS sucks. it all comes down to the driver and he/she/there abilty(sp) to tune it to work with the motor.i have seen N/A 4 bangers beat F/I 4 bangers.super chargers beat turbos and turbos beat superchargers.its all on how well the person can tune it.


i need to got to sleep
 
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