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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Reed & Superburban: re below..
the #1 cylinder" nonsense came from, but it is meaningless. That makes sense that you can decide to make any cylinder No 1, just so you follow the correct firing order to the plugs. With my HB lined up at "O" I can't install my distributor and have the slot for the rotor pointing any other way than straight forward or rearward..
Oh yea, I made sure, I had No1 cylinder (front most piston drivers side) on the compression stroke. To get it without any doubt I starter bumped it 5 times to get the compression air blast past my finger... before I threaded it my TDC tool and gently hand rotated the piston up the remaining 2 or 3 inches to the stop.....both clockwise rotation and counterclockwise. I found the midpoint between both and that lined up with the factory HB long hash mark or groove. P.S. I left the valve cover on so no can see the valves..
AS long as you have the plug wires in the right order, you can have number one where ever you want.

SO..... To set that full length groove on the harmonic balancer correctly...per Chiltons @ 12 degrees BTDC .....
1.. All I need do is to line up that full length groove NOT at "0" degrees on the timing case "gauge".. but at 12 deg BTDC.. then..
2.. Make sure my rotor is forward on the post-electrode in the dist Cap numbered # 1, and insure that the remaining plug wires are routed correctly from the dist cap to the plugs per the firing order for my 318..... Nice that they stamped that firing order in the intake.. Otherwise we would have a million online videos screwing that up too !!!! I bet that some Jr engineer had to fight like hell to get his suggestion for that approved..


The attached image shows the slot for the distributor rotor shaft, parallel with the middle of the vehicle..
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I'm pretty sure my 64 Buick Skylark 2dr Sport coupe.... 255 cu in V 6 Odd fire is the same just a gear..I never pulled the dist, though years back I pulled an GM HEI from a Buick V6 I thing from the early 70s.. My son will restore the interior about 50% ..
It's funny that make was only produced during 64 and 65...It's easier to buy NOS or new manufactured parts for it... e.g.  We had no problem replacing the entire brake system.. ordering the entire pre-bent brake lines and a new booster to convert it from manual to power brakes.. That company did not have the same product for our 85 RC :mad: :mad:    It has a voltage regulator on the fire wall separate from the generator. We will eventually need to re configure it to accept a new alternator.  There's probably a wiring conversion kit for it..  ;D ;D ;D ;D 
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You guys are "NASA" these images are great !! printing n filing. I'll get a straight edge tomorrow and check that slot position again. Dam if it didn't look straight down the middle - as I wanted it to be Sooo to No# 1..  It's OK...as long as I can wire it up.. I just pulled the dist without thinking to try to bump the gear a tooth or two trying for a quick/lazy fix. Over a month ago-but never could. Then it got  like a broiler in Aug. I never pulled it clear so I didn't know it had a slot.. Now I know there are two possibilities.... I think.. Thanks for the images... Wow.. EDDIEK         
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK: I'm still trying to grasp the timing thing... sorry for the delay... Here's where I am...

SO..... To set that full length groove on the harmonic balancer correctly...per Chiltons @ 12 degrees BTDC .....
1.. All I need do is to line up that full length groove NOT at "0" degrees on the timing case "gauge".. but at 12 deg BTDC.. then..
2.. Make sure my rotor is forward on the post-electrode in the dist Cap numbered # 1, and insure that the remaining plug wires are routed correctly from the dist cap to the plugs per the firing order for my 318..... Nice that they stamped that firing order in the intake.. Otherwise we would have a million online videos screwing that up too !!!! I bet that some Jr engineer had to fight like hell to get his suggestion for that approved..
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK: I'm still trying to grasp the timing thing... sorry for the delay-close friend-very ill. OK Here's where I am... I'm following the below
"my notes "in red... per above message..

SO..... To set that full length groove on the harmonic balancer correctly...per Chiltons @ 12 degrees BTDC ..... I am missing something?? My piston stop tool seems to work when I find TDC clockwise, BUT I don't get the same feel...when I hand crank the engine counter-clockwise looking for the same point of resistance re the piston head against the TDC tool !!!
SO I used a thin wood dowel, inserted at no# 1 piston.. (front most cylinder driver's side) !! I do know now that you can....make any piston number one just so you keep the correct firing order.. I decided to bump /via the starter around the engine ...it goes clockwise.. every time the balancer "FULL" length groove.. comes around to "0" on the engine mounted plate showing the before and after degrees..I feel the piston top out at number one where I gently-loosly held the dowel. I did this from the battery side, using a length of wire from the starter relay briefly touching the positive terminal.. watching the dowel in the open sparkplug hole. as I gently bumped and rotated the engine... then for the last five inches..I inched it up to the dowel each time... I did this several times each time the full length groove lands on the 0 mark... Each time the balancer lines up with "0"

1.. All I need do is to line up that full length groove NOT at "0" degrees on the timing case "gauge".. but at 12 deg BTDC..

[size=12pt]Question: I just hand rotate counterclockwise to 12 BTDC ?? Then what do I do with the dizzy rotor... It just has a slot to fit down in... Maybe I am 180 out... both upstrokes give you pressure.. I should then loosten the hold down bolt and turn the rotor facing rearward ??

2.. Make sure my rotor is forward on the post-electrode in the dist Cap numbered # 1, and insure that the remaining plug wires are routed correctly from the dist cap to the plugs per the firing order for my 318....

OK... Image 4 and 5 .. The rotor tip actually lines up with the metal snap clip, that holds the cap on..
Sorry to be so dense.. I have read so much ..some say first do static timing ...then do dynamic with test light or by ear... my head is spinning..

Seems to me the balancer has NOT spun or shifted ?? Once I put it at 12 BTDC It has to run via one way rotor forward or backward .. depending if it's either on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke. BTW: I tried the static timing ...but the test probe occasionally glows.. I think I just have to hand crank the engine around clockwise till the charge builds and I get a glow on the test probe ?? Hey I'll be happy if I re install the dizzy forward pointing or rearward...and it runs... .. ;D
Thanks for the assist.... KurtfromLaQuinta and all....

EDDIEK
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ToxicDoc, Reed, SuperBurban.....
I appreciate your taking the time to give your advice.... SB....yea, a bad habit thinking  too hard.... my Grandmother a gentle but strong woman, first one born here.. said that back when I was a young lad in 62 or so...Funny how you remember such things..  I know all of you are correct..  I know with that advice I will get the Beast up and running.. Good advice give you a good jolt of confidence... This is my back up vehicle down here in Hurricane country, I plan to have it repainted when all of the critical components are completed, just wiper wiring..and tidy up the rewiring under the dash, interior that's easy, and get the side round step pipes installed, and a mild throaty exhaust system.
EDDIE K   
 

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OP, what I’m seeing in your second picture of your original post is a distributor that is incorrectly installed.  The vacuum advance should be further forward from where it is.  If it were in the correct position the rotor would be pointing at about 4:00 to 5:00 O’clock like it’s supposed to do. 

That said, the distributor doesn’t care what position it’s in so long as the wires are in the right order and the rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap.  If you don’t want to remove the distributor and correct it’s position then just adjust the position of the plug wires on the cap to coincide correctly.  Then you can get it fired up and fine tune the timing.  :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would rather re install the distributor, do it correct so it's as the factory intended. Ok that means loosen the hold down bolt/clamp  rotate counterclock wise ... so that rotor points to between 4:00 - 5:00: Thanks much ..
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'll just start, over...Wish i knew were i took that wrong turn.Going to find TDC, on compression, at no1, balancer at 12 BTDC.  Then install dizzy both ways, one has got to work.
THANKS SB.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Broncowilly said:
A. turn it counter clockwise so that the vacuum advance is about 9:00 ...rotor is a 4:00 to 5:00.
B. This, of course, once you have established TDC.
C. Remember the oil pump drive must line up also.
OK when looking straight down on top of the dist .. Should the vacuum advance (the center line of the advance can) should point to about 9:00.. OR should it's port where the hose connects..just be pointed to 9:00 ??
While the rotor must be turned further clockwise pointing to between 4:00 - 5:00 o'clock.. While the oil pump drive slot - to the distributor must also be lined up ??

I seems that I should be able to do this..via

A. lifting / suspending the distributor up enough to well - clear the "slot" drive..
B. bump the engine or hand crank clockwise.. till I get TDC on No#1..
( I can't count on the full length groove on the harmonic balancer lining up at 12BTDC, because the balancer may have spun a little, Yes ??) Because it's a matter of getting ... the Dist body vaccum to 9..aligned correct, the rotor point correct to 4-5. WITH no1 piston at TDC...
C. hopefully the rotor drive will drop down so the slot will line up and the rotor will end up pointing to bet 4 & 5 ...
D. then work the distributor body down to line up the vacuum can advance.. I'm thinking IT should point to 9 o clock..

It should then run... I was thinking back, we were also working on my son's Skylark so I probably was distracted, not paying close enough attention to the Dodge.. As I was trying to rotate the distributor with it hooked up to my 1970 Sun hand held vacuum gauge...I was rotating the distributor back and forth to get the best efficient vacuum reading. It ran better with the vacuum can rotated further toward the center-line of the engine.. I could never advance it enough to please the gauge.. The 318 ran fine,very smooth, and responsive UNTIL i screwed around with it.. I could never get it back to that sweet spot. .. I inspected and rewired and replaced worn/degraded wire throughout the entire truck..chassis, under dash, engine compartment.. I never thought I would have such a problem.. figuered I could just rotated it back.
Could be the vacuum gauge is faulty... All I know ...it unlike the wiring which I improved upon, I need to stay away from Distributors..
Broncowilly, SuperBurban, Reed... TY...
P.S. Yes will be looking for a FSM, right now.. I copied /pasted and am printing your guidance..Will have it on the fender as I work this through... Oh I couldn't let this go...when I was re-doing the wiring my 85RC did not entirely match the FSM schematic for 1985 or for a year before or after... Not a major problem, enough of it did.... Wonder what happened that day on the assembly line :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ??? ???
Got an hardcover 85 Service manual $19.99 free shipping re online auction.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D pic #2 has dist / vacuum advance...had to be a good omen ;D ;D :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

EDDIEK
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
KurtfromLaQuinta ...Yes, I remember.. " I think part of your problem is advancing the crank to 12° before top dead center. Leave it at zero when installing the distributor. Advance it when you get it started or before you start it. Just a little bit. Then use a timing light to set it right. Or by ear which I usually do."

KLQ & Reed... Thanks guys... Really...
EDDIEK
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
KurtfromLaQuinta, Broncowilly, SuperBurban, Reed and ToxicDoc..
Well using all of your advice and Reed's list... step 1 to 9...  the steps revealed I was 180 out on the distributor rotor..see pics.. I got better using the piston stop tool.. Looks like true TDC is still on the the factory setting, if it's off ...maybe one increment.. It's the width of a paperclip if it's off from the center factory cut full length..groove ad the timing tab..  # step 9 the rotor does point straight to the radiator....
Will resume tomorrow..    Thanks Again..  (P.S..still hitting the 90s here  ??? ??? ??? otherwise I would have had this done... ::) ::) ::)
   
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks guys...  Trying to watch that intake valve to come back up to close, if your have never done it, it's like it's Not moving ...then it's like watching a movie in slo-mo...hand cranking it.. I made sure I first removed the piston stop tool, then I (starter) rotated the engine a few times... Then I got a better feel for when the valve topped out.. I was glad to see the rocker arms and the rest fairly clean.
Side note: I always changed the oil at 5K..in all my vehicles..n added the correct amount of  "Marvel mystery oil".. at each oil change per crankcase capacity. I always wondered if it made any difference , there's so much crap out there.. I had a local 'Rodder" old skool..guy  who made T-Buckets, and repaired roadsters and muscle cars in his own shop.. We became casual friends. In the late 80s he replaced a rear main seal on my Mercury Montego..and remarked when he dropped the pan that it was the cleanest engine he had ever seen.. So I'm sure it's helped the "Beast".. Down here those underhood temps get crazy..       
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok..progress report.. btw..u never see any ads for MMO ?? Guess they don't need any..
Ok.. yesterday i rotated the distributor body so the rotor lines up on number one dist tower.  I started to rotate the distributor did it 2 or 3 X got it close to Turning over, the engine wanted to fire..on the next try I resumed ..despite being very measured with my force on the dizzy body.... then it broke free and moved  bit too far I'd say  1/2  inch. Up to to then I was very careful to move it ..say the thickness of a toothpick. But then it freed up. I spent the next hour or two trying to get back where I was to the point where it was about to turn over. Had to take a break and ended up cleaning the workbench up and that sort of thing.... better than throwing hammers. I'll try again tomorrow we've got some errands to run. Before I shut the hood, I made sure I was at top dead center again on the compression stroke with the rotor pointed at tower no#1 on the distributor.  I checked re air fuel spark..  The holley sucks air. move the linkage and u can see both jets firing fuel...  I will check the coil spark for a bright blue...# but really have no reason to think its the coil.. i also have a an old school Schumacher. analog meter 50-10-2 amp , automatic off, battery charger that i hooked up.. that kept the rotations going, without fully discharging the battery. I really think there must be somehow a small sweet spot where it will fire up.. Just got to keep working the plan step by step....following the list.. Which kept me on track...EDDIEK
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I recall reading that either via this thread or another...yea, basically i could be off the engine timing tab "0" mark by 10 deg..either way.. no prob ??  ::) ::) ::) also when i had the distributor out i checked for any unusual play re shaft wobble..
The distributor was replaced by my mechanic back in 99 per receipt... When i bought it from him.. Will recheck everything..
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
SB:      Yes Sir..re checking coil.... that's first thing tomorrow morning..  Distributors are reasonably priced.. on E-Bay... Not in a rush to replace a distributor...I have that electronic trigger.. always liked it...  Never a problem.. We will see..   

I was thinking my old mechanic may have put in a reconditioned distributor.. I hate to think of the other possibility. I visit... rarely.. the local yard over in Tampa about 12 miles away. You and the other guys wouldn't be shocked.. but the average consumer would be...How many guys wearing..mechanic garb ..pulling parts..  Wonder how many shops charge "new" prices..after they clean up the part.. 
EDDIEK
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Never, had any tools inside, distributor.. only r & r the distributor cap n rotor for tune ups. I would like to do the same n switch to the HEI type you use. Once I decied i have no other options. I'll do the piston stop tool again, go down the list, confirm true TDC, assure rotor is pointing to dist cap No# 1 plug wire tower via rotate body to line up to No#1..then attempt initial start up,  then refine via strobe gun / or by ear..🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪    will re read everything re this thread...maybe i missed something...
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No sir, we never discussed reluctor...etc etc.. that fine measurement thing is NASA to me. May as well be rocket sci.... If that pickup assembly is costly, thinking i may as well put it toward a modern dizzy like Superburban..And never need to go there ever again..
.Don't don't get me wrong, i appreciate you all !!!  used to say " you-guys" 😝 for the immense help. Thinking hard on my problem....even at this hour... I've never messed with timing, distributors .... etc etc.. Never will again....TY.. EDDIEK
P.S. just read above... I have that so xalled small block 5.2 L..... the 318...
I should be ok.. But yes even that stock dizzy is close to the firewall... and the gas pedal throttle cable is so vluse to the dizzy cap too.......

 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That looks easy. Just need to get a plastic feeler gauge ??..I have that FSM enroute..that i just bought..
Used.. but $19.99..😜😜😜
Holy crap again..... that thing should have a triple XXX rating... n come in a plain wrapper box....  choices choices..
All of those sparks flying under my hood,  I'll for sure get pulled over by the local s..
....... a call to Homeland Security...get them in on it as well.......Ouch.. What we used to call an  Ow 💩 Situation !!




 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes that's right...
That's one damned distributor
The shaft in the pic, would have that thing protruding from your hood..
.😛😛😛
 
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