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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well as many of you know i bought a 93 ramcharger canyon sport form a junkyard with no tranny in it. i put a 5-speed manual in it. i put the pcm form the truck with a manual in it. im having problems getting it started (was having same problems with both pcms in there). the ASD relay keeps getting kicked and i dont knwo why? my main question and problem is why do both wires going into the coil supply power? when i turn the key the ASD relay clicks so i have that second to check the wires when it closes then opens and i have tested both wires and they are both supplying power to the coil. and i have replaced the crack shaft positioning sensor and i checked the thrust bearing with the pry bar and the harmonic balancer to see if the crank sensor is getting a reading. the camshaft positiong sensor i have tested and it good. both the ASD relay and the fuel pump relay are brand new. i have checked all the under hood wiring for ohm reading to see if i had a bad wire but all test out good. the fuel tank was dropped because it was in a junkyard but the wiring for that is good. im really stumped. right now the only code it is throwing when i check the codes is code eleven. and in one of my repair manuals it says something to the order of circuit between distributor and pcm is not complete and code eleven in my other book says no crank reference signal detected. if anybody knows why my truck is not running or wants to trade a 94-01 ram 4wd for it lol let me know. i am really getting agitated because i want to see this b*tch run. so please everyone respond and give me any insight im willing to try anything at this point. im seriously considering putting a carb on top of this motor untill i can afford to swap in either a V-10 or a diesel.
 

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How bout a bad hall device/pick-up sensor in the distributor?
Or wiring to it?

ASD Relay
Description and Operation

LOCATION

The Automatic Shut Down (ASD) relay is located in the engine compartment.

PURPOSE

The ASD supplies battery voltage to the fuel pump relay. It also supplies voltage to the fuel injectors, ignition coil, and O2 sensor heating element.

OPERATION

The ground circuit for the ASD relay is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) . The PCM operates the relay by switching the ground circuit on and off.

The PCM monitors distributor signal to determine engine speed and compute injector synchronization. If the PCM does not receive a distributor signal when ignition switch is in RUN position, it will de-energize (remove ground) from ASD relay. Battery voltage will be cut to the fuel pump relay. It will also be cut to the fuel injectors, ignition coil, and O2 sensor heater element.
 

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the crank sensor fires the injectors and the cam sensor fires the coil / what are you missing - spark or injector pulse / its easy enuf to have somebody crank it over while you check spark / if you got spark pour some gas down it and see if it fires / if it fires you got a fuel problem / if it dont then its either one of the sensors or a wiring problem
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The hall effect device or as the used to be called pick ups coils, are known in the 93's as camshaft positioning sensors and thats right under the distributor cap and that is good it has been tested. my problem is i have no spark i can hear the fuel pump working untill the ASD click but when it cranking im still not getting power to the coil but yet i have fuel in the fuel rail so i know i have fuel pressure i sjtu cannot figure out hwo to get spark.
 

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u got a good coil in it ? also i would pull the ditributor and make sure the cam gear is not shot .... i know the parts ina ditributor do wear out so if it's got some high miles defnitely look in that direction could be your getting spark to the cap but's it's not firing
 

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The ASD relay will pick for 2 to 3 seconds when you turn the key on, this is controlled by the PCM. If the PCM does not see a pulse from the crank or camshaft sensor it will drop the relay and you will have no power to fuel and coil. Just because you have fuel in the rail does not mean it will start, pressure is supposed to stay there after the relay picks for 2 to 3 seconds. The fuel in the rail cannot go anywhere if the injectors dont pick and they wont as long as you have a Code 11. My guess is you still have a sensor problem or wiring problem or bad PCM, you need to follow a "No Start" diagnostic procedure and use a wiring diagram to track down your problem. Have you tried www.alldatadiy.com for an online subscription?
 
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2000DAKATAK said:
The hall effect device or as the used to be called pick ups coils, are known in the 93's as camshaft positioning sensors and thats right under the distributor cap and that is good it has been tested. my problem is i have no spark i can hear the fuel pump working untill the ASD click but when it cranking im still not getting power to the coil but yet i have fuel in the fuel rail so i know i have fuel pressure i sjtu cannot figure out hwo to get spark.
The camshaft position sensor contains the Hall Effect device as well as a sync signal generator. This sync device coordinates with the crankshaft position sensor to differentiate between fuel injection and spark events. The Hall Effect device may be functioning, but the synch generator must be tested as well. If it's bad, you get no spark signal, as well as no fuel injector coordination.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
gen1dak said:
2000DAKATAK said:
The hall effect device or as the used to be called pick ups coils, are known in the 93's as camshaft positioning sensors and thats right under the distributor cap and that is good it has been tested. my problem is i have no spark i can hear the fuel pump working untill the ASD click but when it cranking im still not getting power to the coil but yet i have fuel in the fuel rail so i know i have fuel pressure i sjtu cannot figure out hwo to get spark.
The camshaft position sensor contains the Hall Effect device as well as a sync signal generator. This sync device coordinates with the crankshaft position sensor to differentiate between fuel injection and spark events. The Hall Effect device may be functioning, but the synch generator must be tested as well. If it's bad, you get no spark signal, as well as no fuel injector coordination.
How do i test the synch generator?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, it has a good coil in it i put a new coil, wires, distributor cap, and, rotor in it i have a new crankshaft positioning sensor and the cam sensor tests out im finding out right now i need to test the synch generator which hopefully some one can help me out with. but other than that keep the replys up because so far everything you guys have said i've either tested or replced which isnt a bad thing, im not trying to say you're not helping, im jsut waiting for someone or a bunch of people to hit that one or many responce(s) that i havent done or overlooked and it will bring this thing to life!!
 
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Well, I was reading through the diagnostic section here and it sums up the whole thing by saying if there is no synch pulse the cam position sensor must be replace, i.e., if the cam sensor is functioning, you will have the synch pulse, so since yours has been tested and is working, that kills that idea. It goes on to mention checking for voltage at pin 7 of the PCM, checking harness integrity for a break, and use of the DRB II diagnostic scan tool. So, it's looking more like a PCM issue. Make sure all the engine/chassis grounds are secure and in good shape. Since you've tried 2 PCMs, well, they could've both been bad (that's my kinda luck), but make sure the harness connectors are in good shape too. Here's a trick I used to bypass the PCM to get the fuel pump and ignition to work. Run a wire directly from the battery to the coil. This will provide power even after the ASD cuts out. If you get spark, that'll help pinpoint the problem. Ummm, if the sumbitch blows up....well, do this at your own risk. It worked for me on my '89 TBI unit, but I was using a carb so it'd run just fine. Not sure how the injectors will react, but it will help run down the spark issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
gen1dak said:
Well, I was reading through the diagnostic section here and it sums up the whole thing by saying if there is no synch pulse the cam position sensor must be replace, i.e., if the cam sensor is functioning, you will have the synch pulse, so since yours has been tested and is working, that kills that idea. It goes on to mention checking for voltage at pin 7 of the PCM, checking harness integrity for a break, and use of the DRB II diagnostic scan tool. So, it's looking more like a PCM issue. Make sure all the engine/chassis grounds are secure and in good shape. Since you've tried 2 PCMs, well, they could've both been bad (that's my kinda luck), but make sure the harness connectors are in good shape too. Here's a trick I used to bypass the PCM to get the fuel pump and ignition to work. Run a wire directly from the battery to the coil. This will provide power even after the ASD cuts out. If you get spark, that'll help pinpoint the problem. Ummm, if the sumbitch blows up....well, do this at your own risk. It worked for me on my '89 TBI unit, but I was using a carb so it'd run just fine. Not sure how the injectors will react, but it will help run down the spark issue.
i tryed running a constant hot to the input on the bottom of the coil and connecting the other wire to the negativs on the coil and thats when coil number one fryed lol well it kinda sjut smoked up and then didnt work after that. but i have to belive its somewhere in the under the hood wiring but i dont fricken know where. i am all out of ideas on this damn thing!!!!!
 

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do like I did( I have a 79, so this might not even work) take out the entire engine wiring harness, and peel off all the tape, and look at all the wires. if some parts look bad, cut them out and replace with the same gauge wire, and solder it together real good, then put some shrink wrap on it. Might be some screwed up wires, thats all. Like I said tho, dont quote me, cause i dont know my ares from a hole in the ground when it comes to comp vehicles. But just keep trying, and dont give up!! Ive been working on mine for four years, off and on,and have driven it twice, and am still fighting with it, but I will fix it or die trying!! Stick with it and youll be rewarded handsomely, trust me.
 

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Time to do continuity checks for all the wires from the 2 sensors back to the PCM. Check the connector at the pickup in the dist and make sure it's getting a good connection. Maybe it's time to change the sensor? sometimes the tests dont reveal bad crimps, connections, wire breaks,etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have run continutity checks on the wires and i get the buzz so i know they're good. i have checked all the wires in the 60 pin connector by hand for cracks frays or burns and have come up clean. i dont know im thinkin hard about jsut taking it to a dealer and saysin get the f*cker to run. but hey how accurate do u think one of those snap-on vehicle scanners would be if i had sum one with one try that. or would it jsut bring up trouble codes like i can do now. would it be worth the $20 to have him bring over the scanner and do it or not?
 
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