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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why do people say to stick with a manual? What are the benifits over a 727. Are there any? What are the benifits of a 727 over a manual? Are there any? ???
 

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The benefits are that it is a manual. Automatics suck. The 727 is only a 3 speed. The manual gives you more control. The manual is more fun to drive. I can't see any reason to have a automatic unless you are to lazy to shift yourself. If you haven't figured it out yey, I don't like automatics.
 

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Don't listen to him, hes been brain washed. I can't tell you much on the 727 but i do know that id choose an auto if it was my daily driver, better for pulling, more convienent, all that good stuff. In fact I have an auto as my daily driver and my dodge will be a manual for play time. works out perfect. I don;t agree with more control either, an automatic will give you more control driving the car rather then shifting, which is better?
 

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6 to one, half a dozen to the other. i personally like autos, especially off road. they are easier to drive. manuals are easier to rebuild, and more durable. its a toss up, most of which is based on personal preferance. now if i had a stick, i dont think i would swap in an auto unless the stick gave up the ghost, but if i were buying a truck and found 2 i like, one stick, one auto, id take the auto.

Duane
 

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the 727 are good autos, i personaly love my manual though, it is just simple funner to drive. I feel i do have more control over my truck too. Autos are really nice for daily drivers. When it comes down to it, it is all personal preference.
 

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Each type has it's pros and cons.
The automatic is easier to drive, you never need to worry about grinding gears or missing a shift. Theres no worry about losing momentum when you shift gears (Such as hill climbing or mud bogging) There are numerous ways to improve an automatic. Theres no need to replace clutches.

Their downside, they produce heat which can damage them. You can't rely on compression braking to help slow down the truck. They are more expensive to repair and even more to modify. They usually waste more fuel if they lack an overdrive and lock up torque converter.

For a manual, they are simple and less expensive to repair. You can always pull start the truck if the starter fails. Manuals get better fuel economy. They have more gears for greater mechanical advantage. Heat doesn't kill them.

The downsides of a manual are, it's easier to shock load the drivetrain when you dump the clutch. They are prone to quirks like sticking shifter, clutch pedal problems or even jamming when certain parts wear out. Clutch requires more maintence than torque convertors. Mud and grit can damage clutch. Often requires you slip the clutch in certain conditions, resulting in excellerated wear on the clutch.

Ed
 

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Having owned both a 435 and 727 equipped truck, I definitely prefer the manual for the gearing (6.68 first [towing/climbing] gear, 3.34 second [first for normal driving], 1.66 third, and 1.00 fourth) and direct control of the shifts. The 727 has 2.45 first, 1.45 second, and 1.00 first, which is kind of weak for a truck.. You need really steep axle gears to make a lot of torque. Even with a 1/4 million miles on my '85's 318, I could still chirp the tires in second with the 435. In first, forget it.. I could light 'em up all day long.. However, both trucks are/were daily drivers, and a stick becomes a ROYAL pain in the ass in bumper to bumper Jersey traffic. I went through 2 clutches in under 75k miles because of it. That, and you are constantly going back and forth between 2nd and 3rd. For this reason, I like the 727. If you going to be using it for plowing, a manual is better.. Automatics tend to overheat unless you have an Uber cooling system (read: large auxiliary cooler + high CFM electric fan) for it.

It's all up to your preference and what you'll be doing with it. If you go with an automatic, get a Trans-Go shift kit.. From what everyone here who has them says, it is worth every penny. It'll prolong the life of the trans, and make it shift a lot better.

I really wish there was a better geared automatic that would fit our trucks.. ::)
Matt {peace}
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I offroad the truck justabout every weekend. Its also my daily driver. My manual is i guess a np435 and it pops outa gear at the worst moments sometimes. I just figurerd when im hill climbing or mudbogging if i have to shift the auto would be better. I have alreday bought the 727 but im not sure. They both seem like they have ups and downs. I just dont know what to do.
 

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The other advantage of the automatic is the torque multiplication effect of the torque converter. They are much eaiser (IMHO) to drive in tight, slow 4X4 situations too. The slippage of the TC blurs the gap in the gears as well. Compression braking? 4:1 transfer case, baby.

Get another year or so of driving under your belt, there, Gray, and see if you get tired of shifting all the time.
 

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I am pretty sure that RXT's compression braking is when you slow down in gear, the engine acts like a brake and slows the truck down from speed without using the actualy brakes. Semi trucks use jake brakes that basically turn the engine into a compression pump and puts a pretty good braking force to slow the truck down. But In an Auto that doesnt have a lock up converter, that cannot happen.
 

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Ok i have used both trans in all types of cases, racing, towing, off-road, everyday use and i find that niether one is good without modifying, im keeping this to trucks or this post will get so long that i'll need new finger tips atleast.

The Auto, good for light towing, oh it'll do heavy towing to after you modify the trans, and the auto takes the thinking process out of off-roading.

The Manual, also good for light towing, oh it can do heavy towing too but gear splits being kinda spread out up hills with excess of 8,000 pounds sucks plain and simple, the fix for that a splitter. Off-roading in some cases involves alittle more thought of what the hell you are doing, but the clutch has advantages here.

Auto's have compression braking, you wanna feel what 9,000 rpms feels like off the gas on the motor braking, and you think jake brakes are good. and it ain't no lock up converter either, just a little reworking of the overrunning clutch, again though this is a modification, and a good 1. This is done mostly for cars running auto's on road courses because there is nothing worse than coming out of the corner and the motor smacks the TC and breaks the tires looose and well you will be mowing the grass or testing the sand pit or guard rail, also used in drag race trannies to prevent the trans explosions that occur during the burnout.
Though you can see the benefits of such a modification for your truck, so when you build your auto trans pay attention to detail and don't be cheap

Manual comes with compression braking built in, as long as you leave it in gear when off the gas and your foot off the clutch.

Auto has a problem with real steep inclines, and declines, but you'll be on the brakes so you won't notice

Manual doesn't have either of the above mentioned problems.

Deep water/mud takes it's toll on both, neither is safe. Inspection covers should remain on either trans that would be used in that environment.

In all my use i find absolutely nothing perfect until it's modified, i can find problems as i have with both, for me to use an auto for all my uses it would cost me $2800

The manual cost me $2900 for the splitter to make the gearing splits acceptable for the loads being pulled, but then you gotta add more for the new modified clutch that can deal with the weight since the factory set up doesn't.

Expense wise the auto is cheaper. I also know everyone isn't as worried about towing as i am, but for all around use they both have the sweet spots after being modified.
 

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Yeah, my dad owns a construction company, and one of his friends owns a trucking/construction company and they have a dodge 1 ton with a cummins and a manual and they won't tow our T-200 bobcat up some of the steeper hills, and we do it with chevy 2500HD's with automatics and the 5.7 and 6.0. By the way the bobcat weighs in at 9,000lbs plus a 3,000lb trailer and then usually a 1,000lb packer.
 

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Stick better for plowing? Huh? I tryed that once and it got old quick. My old beat up stock W350 with stock snow plow package had no problems with over heating the 727...and i used to be out for hours at a time plowing trailer parks and outher PITA places.

I find stick to be more fun but I tend to brake alot more stuff with them...and in plowing my leg gets tired quick.

I also find the T-flite to be the simplest trany to rebuild. Just get a good rebuild kit, a really good TC and do some good old school zero buck mods to it and your all set. Or you can get a manual Vb.

 

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I've had both, and I've come to despise auto's. I guess it's just my super short attention span that makes me dislike them. I'm constantly shifting w/ the 4spd. I love the granny gear, and low reverse too.
-Steve C.
 

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Well, I've driven both.

I prefer an auto for daily driving, but for 4wheeling, it's kind of a toss up. Manual is better for slow stuff like rock climbing, but auto is better for high speed stuff like mud.

The manual has a definite gearing advantage, and it will give you more HP. The 727 auto takes almost 50 hp to turn...so you figure it out.

And an auto can give very good compression braking, even in high gear. Mine will almost lock up the tires when it downshifts to 1st (makes for fun snow driving let me tell ya), but it will not hold it like a manual will for long descents. Mine has also been modified from the stock settings.

Overall, I'd say an auto is best for off road use, but if you are more into rocks and such, go manual.

You also don't have to worry about driveline breakage as much with an auto, because it is not a direct hookup like a clutch is.
 

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Had both in 4x4's and sports cars the manual 4 or 5 speeds. Sports cars like tr's and austins and mg's, as well as sport jap cars and small beemers all need manual shifts, but for 4x4's the only thing I like about manual is the better hold back on down slopes. But anything over about a 2 ton should have a stick. Had a military 6 wheel drive with an alison auto and I would have prefered about a 10 speed manual.
 

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FMJ said:
Yeah, my dad owns a construction company, and one of his friends owns a trucking/construction company and they have a dodge 1 ton with a cummins and a manual and they won't tow our T-200 bobcat up some of the steeper hills, and we do it with chevy 2500HD's with automatics and the 5.7 and 6.0. By the way the bobcat weighs in at 9,000lbs plus a 3,000lb trailer and then usually a 1,000lb packer.
Do they put diesel in the cummins? A cummins has no problem towing a 15,000 pound payload on 4% grades (that means steep).
 
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