[HOBO]

Here are some follow up photos for note / record purposes purposes.

New vs Old Coil Springs. Assembled with rubber isolator & 1 inch block.

old worn out OEM Leaf Springs: "ONLY LOOKS GOOD IN THE STAMPING PHOTOS BECUASE I WIRE WHEELED ALL THE JUNK OFF"

 

[HOBO]

@RXT & @DODGEBOYS I figured out how to lift the front the remaining distance. In the guide by malebiker he used B250 Van Spring which are taller by like 2 inches from the truck. Plus adding a 2 inch rubber spacer. That's where the math is, by basically making a stock 12" spring to a 16" inch spring. It just wasn't clear in the guide & the part number was dead for the damn coil spring. That stupid spring. I thought it was just the regular replacement for the front. Then he used a rear leaf spring with a similar height that I have of 6 inches.

The has me asking one finial question. would my drive shaft length be okay? If not do I need to go get one made if its gonna be too short?

See below for the spring specs. Left is the vans & right is the ones I bought for the truck. With the current set up I have for the front springs =s the same height as the B250 van springs. I'm an idiot.

 

[HOBO]

Well, After taking measurements & calculating where theses taller coil springs should sit me. These are the photos of what that would look like. should also level the truck with in an inch + or -.

Angle 1:

Angle 2:

Angle 3:

Angle 4:

 

[RXT]

@RXT & @DODGEBOYS I figured out how to lift the front the remaining distance. In the guide by malebiker he used B250 Van Spring which are taller by like 2 inches from the truck. Plus adding a 2 inch rubber spacer. That's where the math is, by basically making a stock 12" spring to a 16" inch spring. It just wasn't clear in the guide & the part number was dead for the damn coil spring. That stupid spring. I thought it was just the regular replacement for the front. Then he used a rear leaf spring with a similar height that I have of 6 inches.

There was some talk about van springs, but for the most part, the old B series vans used very similar suspension components to the D series trucks. As mentioned the 3/4 ton and one ton trucks (and vans) usually rode a bit higher than the 1/2 tons, partly due to the spring pocket stamped into the lower control arms. In the 1/2 tons, the depth of the pocket is a bit deeper, and on the heavier trucks, they were a bit shallower.

The has me asking one finial question. would my drive shaft length be okay? If not do I need to go get one made if its gonna be too short?

Since you have a 2wd, you probably have a slip yoke design. That means the splined shaft is in the transmission's tail shaft. It's hard to tell by viewing it how much spline engagement there is. If it were me, I would lift the back of the truck until the tires are no longer touching the ground, or max suspension droop. Then check that slip joint for looseness or side to side play If the unit appears over extended, like it might slip out, you'll need a longer d-shaft.

One other note. The slip yoke design means you probably have a d-shaft that contains two u-joints, one at each end. It will not have a CV joint. This will mean that the u-joints will need to be at the same angle or you may have some vibration. Expect to shim the axle to a correct pinion angle and that might affect d-shaft length.

Ed

 

[Mad Max]

...you are trying to lower the back to 'equal' the front? Rear springs with less lift is the best way to go and won't affect the geometry. Are you having trouble finding a lower lift spring, ie. a 'stock' lift Dodge spring? You might have better luck surfing for a 48" Chevy spring, and a leaf spring is a leaf spring. I have 48" Chevy fronts under the front of my Dakota because the options were better than for a Dodge.

Maybe a Skyjacker C125S (1.5-2.5" lift)? - C125S – Softride Leaf Spring - Skyjacker Suspensions

- Sam

 

[HOBO]

There was some talk about van springs, but for the most part, the old B series vans used very similar suspension components to the D series trucks. As mentioned the 3/4 ton and one ton trucks (and vans) usually rode a bit higher than the 1/2 tons, partly due to the spring pocket stamped into the lower control arms. In the 1/2 tons, the depth of the pocket is a bit deeper, and on the heavier trucks, they were a bit shallower.



Since you have a 2wd, you probably have a slip yoke design. That means the splined shaft is in the transmission's tail shaft. It's hard to tell by viewing it how much spline engagement there is. If it were me, I would lift the back of the truck until the tires are no longer touching the ground, or max suspension droop. Then check that slip joint for looseness or side to side play If the unit appears over extended, like it might slip out, you'll need a longer d-shaft.

One other note. The slip yoke design means you probably have a d-shaft that contains two u-joints, one at each end. It will not have a CV joint. This will mean that the u-joints will need to be at the same angle or you may have some vibration. Expect to shim the axle to a correct pinion angle and that might affect d-shaft length.

Ed

That's helpful! Thank you! Luckily the Skyjacker 40s already come shimmed & ready. When I look at the 2 u-joints they seem equal in everything. And yes its slip yoke. I'll have to check the suspension droop. but from how it currently sitting looks ok.

...you are trying to lower the back to 'equal' the front? Rear springs with less lift is the best way to go and won't affect the geometry. Are you having trouble finding a lower lift spring, ie. a 'stock' lift Dodge spring? You might have better luck surfing for a 48" Chevy spring, and a leaf spring is a leaf spring. I have 48" Chevy fronts under the front of my Dakota because the options were better than for a Dodge.

Maybe a Skyjacker C125S (1.5-2.5" lift)? - C125S – Softride Leaf Spring - Skyjacker Suspensions

- Sam

I figured out my issue Sam. I was able to get hold of MaleBiker1 who originally did this. He used 6 inch lift rancho spring in the rear & then got the dodge b250 van coil springs which are 14 inches then stacked a booster on it making it come out to 16 Inch front coil spring vs the factory stock 12 inch coil spring. When I did the cost analysis, It was cheaper & easier to lift the front to level the truck when I figured that out.

but for the rear leaf springs are 52" Long by 2.50" Inch wide. So how did you get 48" Long Chevy springs to work being 4 inches short? I think that would be important to explain since we are on this subject.

 

[Mad Max]

oh, well I didn't know the rears were 52's. Lemme dig for other pn's

 

[Mopar572]

I still can’t wrap my head around how this thing is going to ride, the front suspension has to be maxed out just sitting there with a 4” taller spring? Unless I’m missing something

 

[Canadian country boy]

That's helpful! Thank you! Luckily the Skyjacker 40s already come shimmed & ready. When I look at the 2 u-joints they seem equal in everything. And yes its slip yoke. I'll have to check the suspension droop. but from how it currently sitting looks ok.



I figured out my issue Sam. I was able to get hold of MaleBiker1 who originally did this. He used 6 inch lift rancho spring in the rear & then got the dodge b250 van coil springs which are 14 inches then stacked a booster on it making it come out to 16 Inch front coil spring vs the factory stock 12 inch coil spring. When I did the cost analysis, It was cheaper & easier to lift the front to level the truck when I figured that out.

but for the rear leaf springs are 52" Long by 2.50" Inch wide. So how did you get 48" Long Chevy springs to work being 4 inches short? I think that would be important to explain since we are on this subject.

You have to change the shackles as well to make longer or shorter springs work.

 

[RXT]

That's helpful! Thank you! Luckily the Skyjacker 40s already come shimmed & ready. When I look at the 2 u-joints they seem equal in everything. And yes its slip yoke. I'll have to check the suspension droop. but from how it currently sitting looks ok.

The Skyjacked springs (mis spell intended) may come with shims but remember those were designed for a 4x4 which uses a slip shaft type driveshaft. The slip shaft will be a two piece splined d-shaft that will use a CV at the t-case end and a u-joint at the axle end. The proper geometry for this type of shaft is the axle pinion and d-shaft are inline so that the u-joint runs with very little to no angle. The shim turns the axle up to line up the pinion and d-shaft. You don't want this. Your slip yoke design uses two u-joints (one at each end) If the u-joint up at the trans is operating at 10 degrees, the u-joint at the rear should also be running at 10 degrees. This is due to the inherent problem with the u-joint design that as the joint operates at an angle, it produces a vibration. (the more angle there is, the more vibration it produces) A second u-joint on a common shaft, operating at the same angle will cancel out the vibrations of the first. When there is a CV included in the d-shaft, the CV is essentially two u-joints connected to each other, therefore the vibration is cancelled. This also means the u-joint by the axle has to be set with little to no angle or the pinion should be inline with the d-shaft (no angle = no vibration)
This illustration shows you the proper d-shaft geometry for a slip yoke, two u-joint d-shaft and you'll need to shim accordingly

but for the rear leaf springs are 52" Long by 2.50" Inch wide. So how did you get 48" Long Chevy springs to work being 4 inches short? I think that would be important to explain since we are on this subject.

Isn't it the Chevy springs that are 52" long? In any case, longer springs theoretically ride smoother than shorter springs. Yes there is a 4 inch difference in length. Whenever a leaf spring flexes, it's overall length changes. To accommodate this difference in length, a shackle is part of the spring design which allows for the fore and aft change of length. If you add a longer spring or a highly arched spring, the shackle should allow the spring to fit, but there can be reasons to change the location of the shackle, such as when the shackle doesn't provide the needed length change.

I still can’t wrap my head around how this thing is going to ride, the front suspension has to be maxed out just sitting there with a 4” taller spring? Unless I’m missing something

Other than the spring, the suspension itself hasn't changed. It will still have the same amount of wheel travel from full stuff to full droop. Going with a longer spring will change where in that travel the vehicle will come to rest at. The ride will still be dependent on how soft or stiff the springs are. The other aspect will be how far will the suspension travel before reaching it's limit. Having spacers and longer springs will obviously place the suspension near it's downward travel limit, so if there is only, say, an inch of down travel left, and say you roll into a 2 or 3 inch deep pot hole on one side of the truck, the suspension on that side will drop an inch and make contact with the bump stop and the tire will be temporarily airborne. Is it ideal? Not really, I would recommend having a bit more down travel available, to help keep the tires on the ground as much as possible.

Ed

 

[HOBO]

I still can’t wrap my head around how this thing is going to ride, the front suspension has to be maxed out just sitting there with a 4” taller spring? Unless I’m missing something

I can tell you its way more stiff & a 1,000 Times better than what I had. That just me bouncing & shaking the truck. I haven't even driven it yet. I am wait on some longer bolts for the spacers. So later this week is shake down & test drive. Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[HOBO]

Welp the results are in for the taller front coil springs. Taking a 12inch spring and replacing it with a 16Inch tall spring gets me 2.25 Inches more height to level it out with the rear. I have two options. 1: remove the shim & bottom most leaf spring. 2: roll with how its and see how it sits when I get a full take of gas, that weights about 225 ish lbs. Here is the latest Measurements & photos.

I think Exploring option one tomorrow on just one side of the truck would be worth while & easy to do since my gas tank is currently removed.

--- After Ride Hight Chart ---

“NOTE: Ground was NOT the most level. I have New lifted Suspension, with bald / ultra-worn factory sized tires. No Gas Tank. Job Completed”​

Line Item:​	Name:​	1st Measurement​	2nd Measurement​	3rd Measurement​
1:​	Front Driver​	17.50”​	21.25”​	7.50”​
2:​	Rear Driver​	19”​	25”​	9.25”​
3:​	Front Passenger​	17.75”​	22”​	7.75”​
4:​	Rear Passenger​	19.75”​	25.25”​	10”​
5:​	Totals​	74​	93.50​	34.50​
6:​	Averages​	18.50”​	23.375”​	8.625”​
7:​	All Averages Combined​	16.83”​
8​	Average Front to Back Difference​	1.75”​

Stance & Suspension Photos:

Drive Shaft: I still have spline engagement at the slip yoke & transmission.

 

[HOBO]

The Skyjacked springs (mis spell intended) may come with shims but remember those were designed for a 4x4 which uses a slip shaft type driveshaft. The slip shaft will be a two piece splined d-shaft that will use a CV at the t-case end and a u-joint at the axle end. The proper geometry for this type of shaft is the axle pinion and d-shaft are inline so that the u-joint runs with very little to no angle. The shim turns the axle up to line up the pinion and d-shaft. You don't want this. Your slip yoke design uses two u-joints (one at each end) If the u-joint up at the trans is operating at 10 degrees, the u-joint at the rear should also be running at 10 degrees. This is due to the inherent problem with the u-joint design that as the joint operates at an angle, it produces a vibration. (the more angle there is, the more vibration it produces) A second u-joint on a common shaft, operating at the same angle will cancel out the vibrations of the first. When there is a CV included in the d-shaft, the CV is essentially two u-joints connected to each other, therefore the vibration is cancelled. This also means the u-joint by the axle has to be set with little to no angle or the pinion should be inline with the d-shaft (no angle = no vibration)
This illustration shows you the proper d-shaft geometry for a slip yoke, two u-joint d-shaft and you'll need to shim accordingly

Isn't it the Chevy springs that are 52" long? In any case, longer springs theoretically ride smoother than shorter springs. Yes there is a 4 inch difference in length. Whenever a leaf spring flexes, it's overall length changes. To accommodate this difference in length, a shackle is part of the spring design which allows for the fore and aft change of length. If you add a longer spring or a highly arched spring, the shackle should allow the spring to fit, but there can be reasons to change the location of the shackle, such as when the shackle doesn't provide the needed length change.



Other than the spring, the suspension itself hasn't changed. It will still have the same amount of wheel travel from full stuff to full droop. Going with a longer spring will change where in that travel the vehicle will come to rest at. The ride will still be dependent on how soft or stiff the springs are. The other aspect will be how far will the suspension travel before reaching it's limit. Having spacers and longer springs will obviously place the suspension near it's downward travel limit, so if there is only, say, an inch of down travel left, and say you roll into a 2 or 3 inch deep pot hole on one side of the truck, the suspension on that side will drop an inch and make contact with the bump stop and the tire will be temporarily airborne. Is it ideal? Not really, I would recommend having a bit more down travel available, to help keep the tires on the ground as much as possible.

Ed

Thanks Ed! I think I'll remove the shim & bottom most leaf spring tomorrow to level it out / Keep the drive shaft happy. Your the best! Thank you!

 

[HOBO]

Ok here is the latest photos & data after I removed the shims and the over load leaf spring in the rear ( @RXT & @DODGEBOYS ). The truck is much more level now. I believe once the rear leaf springs get broken in & fuel up the gas tank to the max it should level out (Approx 225 lbs of gas). worse case I do it with tires in the PSI. Since I will still gain 4.10 inches in lift with Tires alone. Just run Slightly lower PSI in the rear. Or level it out with a big ol heavy 200 lbs rear bumper.

Just a tease but told you they'll fit! lol @Canadian country boy

Quick Stats:

Avg Difference Font & Back: 1.375” Inches
Avg Global Lift: 3.39" Inches
Avg Global Ride Height Before: 13.06" Inches
Avg Global Ride Height After: 16.45" Inches
Predicted Max Global Ride Height When Tires Installed: 7.50" Inches

Pictures 1st then Data Charts:

--- After Lift Ride Hight Chart ---

“NOTE: Ground was NOT the most level. I have New lifted Front Suspension, with rear shim & Over load leaf spring removed (Bottom most two of the leaf spring stack) with bald / ultra-worn factory sized tires. No Gas Tank. Job Completed”​

Line Item:​	Name:​	1st Measurement​	2nd Measurement​	3rd Measurement​
1:​	Front Driver​	17.25”​	21”​	7.25”​
2:​	Rear Driver​	18.50”​	24.25”​	9.75”​
3:​	Front Passenger​	17.75”​	21.75”​	7.50”​
4:​	Rear Passenger​	19.25”​	24.25”​	9”​
5:​	Totals​	72.75​	91.25​	33.50​
6:​	Averages​	18.1875”​	22.8125”​	8.375”​
7:​	All Averages Combined​	16.45”​
8​	Average Front to Back Difference 1st Measurement only​	1.375”​

--- After Lift Close Comparison Lift Hight Chart ---

(Passenger Side)

“NOTE: Ground was NOT the most level.”​

Line Item:​	Name:​	1st Measurement​	2nd Measurement​	3rd Measurement​
1:​	Front Passenger (Before)​	13”​	16.625”​	3”​
2:​	Front Passenger (After)​	17.75”​	21.75”​	7.50”​
3:​	Front Passenger Difference:​	4.75”​	5.125”​	4.50”​
4:​	Rear Passenger (Before)​	13.375”​	18.375”​	4”​
5:​	Rear Passenger (After)​	19.25”​	24.25”​	9”​
6:​	Rear Passenger Difference:​	5.875”​	5.875”​	5”​
7:​	Rear needs to come down by:​	1.125”​	0.75”​	1”​
8:​	Front Difference Averaged:​	4.791”​
9:​	Rear Difference Averaged:​	5.58”​
10:​	Front vs Back Difference​	0.789”​

--- After Lift Close Comparison Lift Hight Chart ---

(Driver Side)

“NOTE: Ground was NOT the most level.”​

Line Item:​	Name:​	1st Measurement​	2nd Measurement​	3rd Measurement​
1:​	Front Driver (Before)​	13”​	16.625”​	3”​
2:​	Front Driver (After)​	17.25”​	21”​	7.25”​
3:​	Front Driver Difference:​	4.25”​	4.375”​	4.25”​
4:​	Rear Driver (Before)​	13.375”​	18.375”​	4”​
5:​	Rear Driver (After)​	18.50”​	24.25”​	9.75”​
6:​	Rear Driver Difference:​	5.125”​	6”​	5.75”​
7:​	Rear needs to come down by:​	0.875”​	1.625”​	1.75​
8:​	Front Difference Averaged:​	4.291”​
9:​	Rear Difference Averaged:​	5.625”​
10:​	Front vs Back Difference​	1.334”​

​

 

[malebiker1]

Hey there guys,
Well i had not seen this post before this morning. As many times as this sitre has changed hands over the years they always leave out little details during the transitions. One detail that was missed is I did add a 185 lbs front bumper to smooth out the stiff front end and give it some travel. I am still trying to find the pics but I originally had 35x14x15 all terrains on the RC after the lift. Problem was they did rub and i didnt want to cut up the fenders. I ended up with 33x12.5x15 with no rubbing. When i did the lift it was only going to be a year or two before i did a 4x4 4 link front and rear on the truck. The idea was to build a pre runner style truck with a turbo 440 and wide body. Well life happens and the company i was working with on the pre runner suspension went a different route. This build was done originally in 1998 and in 2018 when i sold the truck we had put 90,000 miles on that setup. It went all over the country we nevr had a problem with the frt suspension. Only replaced two tierods in tat time. I am one of those that is very diligent about maintenance and kept everything greased properly.
over the years I have advised probably 20 people on doing that front end lift and so far havent had any bad feedback.
We had alot of fun in our RC over the years. I currently have two 2wd RC now. One being built as a daily driver with a 360 magnum from 01 ram and the other building a twin turbo 360 magnum.

I hope that when HOBO gets his finished he has as much fun with his as we did with ours.

 

[RXT]

View attachment 637944

View attachment 637945

View attachment 637946

View attachment 637947

Is it me or is the truck parked on an incline?

Ed

 

[HOBO]

Is it me or is the truck parked on an incline?

Ed

Yes, I am on a slight hill, with a drainage slope for rain on passenger side. its why some measurements are all over the place. I know it doesn't help. Once my truck is driving I'll re-take measurements on flat ground. Since my Drive shaft is sticking to far out of the transmission. I am gonna order new rear leaf springs tomorrow. Factory Height & add blocks to level it. Since, removing the shims & bottom most leaf spring (Overload Spring that did nothing). Things are still not quite right in the rear end for it to be safe. Last thing I want is to hit a bump or ditch & have the drive shaft come out.

@malebiker1 Again thanks for your help & feed back. Actually that's what I plan to do to my truck besides the wide body kit. Wanna keep it stock looking. Sleeper in a way. Glad, I got you back on the forum in a way. lol

Thanks again for all the help guys!

 

[RXT]

Yes, I am on a slight hill, with a drainage slope for rain on passenger side. its why some measurements are all over the place. I know it doesn't help.

No, Its the photo. You apparently have a good sense to take level pictures. It appears the rear is still too high, but thats mostly because the truck is pointing downhill. If you had the truck on level ground, it wouldn’t look too high or that bad. Yes, there would still be a bit of a rake but trucks normally have a little rake.

Since my Drive shaft is sticking to far out of the transmission. I am gonna order new rear leaf springs tomorrow. Factory Height & add blocks to level it. Since, removing the shims & bottom most leaf spring (Overload Spring that did nothing). Things are still not quite right in the rear end for it to be safe. Last thing I want is to hit a bump or ditch & have the drive shaft come out

The con with spring blocks is they can produce axle hop under hard acceleration. You can still drop the rear another inch with longer shackles.. you can test wether the driveshaft will come out by lifting the rear off the ground and shaking the shaft at the transmission. But I do admit that by the photo, the shaft looks a bit short.

Ed