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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a 1987 f 150 4x4 4.9L fuel injected. i was sitting at a light today with the truck idling and when i went to take off the truck died and now it wont restart, fuel pump works cause i hear it build pressure, when i hit the key it turns over and seems to catch but never fully starts and just stops, have to cycle the key after that, havent checked spark yet but i dont see why it would have bad spark cause it just had a tune up like 5000 miles ago..... i dont see a schrader valve up on the fuel rail to see what the pressure is like, oh and i sprayed either up into the air cleaner and nothing, didnt even fire over or anything...... lookin for any idea's cause im new to the ford thing
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
oh one other thing i forgot to add but dont know if its relevant is that this truck has dual tanks and ill crap a fuel pump out of it in about 6 months (those fine napa fuel pumps, ive actually gotten quite good and changing them) dont know it the pressure regulator is makin the fuel pumps work harder and makin them go bad but this truck has me stumped
 

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Welcome to my nightmare... ;D

My '89 F250 has a 351, but things should be similar enough for me to get you through a few things...hopefully.  ;)

First thought...in the words of Joe S...did you try putting a few gallons of gas in it and retry starting it?  The fuel gauges from that era fail miserably...hubby's has claimed 1/4 tank and been empty more than once.

Second thought...your fuel filter may be clogged.  They will run themselves to a full clog before the truck will die...no warning, no sputtering, nothing.  Checking fuel pressure will tell you if the line is blocked in any way, then you have to work from the tank forward to figure out where it lost pressure.  Does your truck have the high pressure & low pressure pump combo?  Dual or single fuel tank? 

Follow the fuel rail from the pressure regulator forward using your fingers...the schrader valve should be about 2/3 of the way toward the front.  You will probably find it by touch before you will find it by sight...especially if you still have smog or ac on it...the black cap disappears under hoses quite well.  BTW, fuel pressure should be around 35-40 psi IIRC.

I'm not a "throw parts at it" kind of person, but in the case of a late 80's "ferd", it would serve you well to replace the fuel & EEC relays before you do anymore troubleshooting.  They can make you chase your freakin' tail when they act up by creating false no fuel/no spark conditions...$20 in relays can help eliminate a lot of head scratching. 

Lots of possibilities from here...broken wires, bad coil, fried ECM, dying fuel pump, tripped/failed inertia switch, bad tank selector, dying fuel pressure regulator...you get the idea.  Change relays, get a fuel pressure reading & accurate spark test and I'll try to walk you through what I can from there.  I've dealt with the "no start" issue four times on two different late 80's "ferds"...same symptoms each time but none had the same causes.

Hang in there!
Missy
 

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pjnuts19 said:
oh one other thing i forgot to add but dont know if its relevant is that this truck has dual tanks and ill crap a fuel pump out of it in about 6 months (those fine napa fuel pumps, ive actually gotten quite good and changing them) dont know it the pressure regulator is makin the fuel pumps work harder and makin them go bad but this truck has me stumped
Regardless of brand, you shouldn't be losing a high pressure pump that quickly. However, I have to ask...what line is your NAPA fuel pump out of? NFP, TFP, BSH, or DFP? If you're not sure, just tell me about what you paid for it and I can probably figure it out. Lots of possibilities here for the premature failures...clogged filter, obstructed line, major sediment being pulled out of the tanks, ECM causing pump overrun, stuck fuel relay causing pump overrun, shorted circuit causing pump overrun.
 

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In other words of joe s,
You can't judge fuel pressure by sound
and

Any repairs you did several months ago may have no relevance
A fuel pump is designed to run at 14.4 volts. Let's say you have 10.2 volts. Sounds close enough, right?

10.2/14.4=70% Means a 30% loss. Think 30% isn't much? Lemme have 30% of your paycheck. ;D

The pump may indeed move, but certainly not as fast as it should. Port injectors are very sensitive to pressure. W/O a certain amount of pressure, they aren't even able to open sometimes. Low voltage will also destroy a pump. This is measured from positive post to positive terminal on pump, and pump negative to negative post.

What does a coil need in order to make a spark? What kind of readily available tools will measure the spark that the coil produces?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
2 new fuel tanks, new fuel lines, new fuel filter new fuel pumps (atowinram nfp, ive been goin round with my old manager at napa tryin to get me bosch) new switcher tank valve, the only thing i didnt change is the fuel lines from the filter up to the fuel rail and pressue regulator...... i was readin atowin rams thing last night after i posted(sry tryin to get used to the new layout of the sight) so ive got a couple idea's, the truck will turn over like an s.o.b so today im going to see if i have spark and rule that one out.

"Think 30% isn't much? Lemme have 30% of your paycheck.  ;D", i didnt know you charged in this website now  ;)
 

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"truck will turn over like a SOB"

Uh, no ford ever turns over impressively fast except the one that breaks a timing chain or belt. If it is damaged or retarded enough from jumping teeth, the engine will turn over a good bit faster, almost effortlessly.

My advice is free....that way no one can sue me for providing the wrong info. ;D PayPal donations are not discouraged. j/k!

 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
and that timeing chain thing seems weird to me because i didnt hear any loud bangs or something to indicate a problem has occurred, you know when your taking off from a stop with a standard (i dont care who you are this HAS happened to you) and it just stalls out from one reason or another? then you start it back up quick and your on your way, well thats what happend to me except the hook had to come get me home... i dunno i think this is my lesson learned for buying a ford instead of a dodge





haha nice joe ill keep that in mind for later  ;)
 

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pjnuts19 said:
atowinram nfp, ive been goin round with my old manager at napa tryin to get me bosch
Good...at least it's not a true flow...that's like the "mileage plus" equivalent of fuel pumps...they work, but it's a crapshoot for how long.

pjnuts19 said:
and that timeing chain thing seems weird to me because i didnt hear any loud bangs or something to indicate a problem has occurred, you know when your taking off from a stop with a standard (i dont care who you are this HAS happened to you) and it just stalls out from one reason or another? then you start it back up quick and your on your way, well thats what happend to me except the hook had to come get me home... i dunno i think this is my lesson learned for buying a ford instead of a dodge
That SOOOO sounds like a broken/burned wire to me...start with the ones on your relay plugs and the ones on the inertia switch.

On the ECM side of things...got a scanner? The codes "may" point you in the right direction. A couple things you can check without a scanner...the ECM is located behind the kick panel next to the e-brake. The clamp that holds it in is also the ground. They can corrode or work loose rendering your injector pulse useless...BTW, does it ever smell "flooded" after you have been cranking on it for a few minutes? There is also a bolt on the firewall that holds the connector in place, they are usually okay, but you never know.

Additionally, you can check voltage at the EGR and the IAC with the key on...if the ECM is working correctly, it should keep the voltage reading to the sensors at 5 volts.

There is also a method to "force" your pumps to engage and a "scratch test" to check spark. IIRC, you ground the pin furthest to the right when looking at the diagnostic plug from the end...I can look the details up if you need them. Thess threads may help too...

http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php/topic,123281.msg1406976.html#msg1406976

http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php/topic,130927.msg1493922.html#msg1493922
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ok so heres my story..... thank you to everyone who helped out it was much appreciated....


i got out of work and finally got home after the wife was 45 minutes late picking me up, and im looking at the truck, same symptoms as before, i pull a plug and have my dad stand their and see if theirs spark, nothing sparked. out of the hole from the plug came some fuel mist so i could see/smell it wasnt a fuel or compression so i focused on spark. i went to autozone to get the special tool to get the module off and i was going to bring it back to them to have it tested. upon taking it off (and noticing that one of the mounting bolts closest to the driving side was broke off) the part literally fell into 2 parts in my hand and the back where it mounts to the distributor was all gunked up. so that kinda pointed my problem out alittle i think. i cleaned everything reassembled and she fired right up like nothin was wrong. oh and upon looking everything over i realized i had a bad ground wire from somewhere up front to the pass side front clutch cover (the peice that slides up between the front of the bellhousing and back of the oil pan. the casing was cracked and covered in oil so she got replaced before the gray box.

again thank you to everyone for the help... 
 

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pjnuts19 said:
ok so heres my story..... thank you to everyone who helped out it was much appreciated....

i got out of work and finally got home after the wife was 45 minutes late picking me up, and im looking at the truck, same symptoms as before, i pull a plug and have my dad stand their and see if theirs spark, nothing sparked. out of the hole from the plug came some fuel mist so i could see/smell it wasnt a fuel or compression so i focused on spark. i went to autozone to get the special tool to get the module off and i was going to bring it back to them to have it tested. upon taking it off (and noticing that one of the mounting bolts closest to the driving side was broke off) the part literally fell into 2 parts in my hand and the back where it mounts to the distributor was all gunked up. so that kinda pointed my problem out alittle i think. i cleaned everything reassembled and she fired right up like nothin was wrong. oh and upon looking everything over i realized i had a bad ground wire from somewhere up front to the pass side front clutch cover (the peice that slides up between the front of the bellhousing and back of the oil pan. the casing was cracked and covered in oil so she got replaced before the gray box.

again thank you to everyone for the help...
Glad it's up & running again! {cool}

Now I have cataloged another potential cause of the "no start" symptom on a late 80's "ferd"...thanks for getting back with your fix. :)

Missy
 
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