Dodge RamCharger Central banner
1 - 20 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is the half-ton rear axle I know the least about.

I've heard its a c-clip axle like the GM 10-bolt and 12-bolt rear axles, which I don't like. The ring gear size is a plus, but any strength plus seems canceled out by the c-clips.

Are there c-clip eliminators available for it?

I want to run a 35x12.50 tire. I'm not the guy who lights up the tires every chance I get and I don't pound the stupid pedal but I do like to get on it now and then and will be doing some mild/medium wheelin' on trails, mild rocks and in light mud. If this axle can handle that then it would be a plus to be able to keep it, rebuild it, re-gear it to 4.10 and drop in a decent locker/limited slip.

What are some of your experiences with this axle?

No guys claiming to be running 44's on a 9.25 with a 400hp 440 winning burnout competitions ::)

And no " a friend of a friend knew a guy who ran 38's on an extreme rock crawler and never busted a c-clip" stories

This truck will have a mild-ish but strong small block, 4.10's and 35's, driven daily and wheeled as stated above. Stories from guys with similar builds would be nice.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,558 Posts
The 9 1/4" is a strong axle on paper and a decent axle in real life.  Most of the parts are pretty stout but it does have a few major problems.  It is a C-clip axle and to my knowledge there is no eliminator kit for it so if you snap a shaft your wheel will be saying goodbye to the body sooner or later.  Locker choices are limited as are gear options.  The main issue I have with the 9 1/4" is the pinion bearing preload is set by a crush sleeve that is very weak.  If you really torque on the axle, it is common to crush the sleeve more and then you lose pinion bearing preload and the pinion becomes loose and things go downhill from there.  Most ignore the "Dodge clunk" that results from the pinion loosing preload but if you are working the axle it can get a lot worse and destroy the ring and pinion.  The other issue is the backlash adjusters have a habit of backing off over time.

As far as my personal experiences with the 9 1/4", I rebuilt the 9 1/4" in my old '84 Ramcharger, ran a Lockright in it for a while, busted the Lockright and when I got rid of the truck the axle was needing to be torn down and have everything reset again.  This is over the course of about 20k miles with 32" tires, 3.21 gears and a lot of abuse.  In my '88 W150 show truck I destroyed the factory limited slip after having the truck about a week with.  It had about 86k miles on it with 39x15x15 tires and 3.21 gears which is not surprising why it ate itself.  I rebuilt it with a Auburn High Performance limited slip and 4.56 gears and then had to reset it about once every to months or more after that until I rolled it a year or so later.  The pinion got loose enough to lock the ring and pinion in a turn which transferred all the weight of the lifted truck to the outside and flopping my $38k show truck on its side.  It could be said that I was going too fast for the turn, but having done it more times than I can count at that speed, I blame the rear axle for the whole mess.  Since then I have never owned a truck with a 9 1/4", nor will I in the future.  My '88 Ramcharger was driven a few miles to my house when I bought it and I then swapped in D60s front and rear before I ever tagged it.  Couple all that with the trucks that came through our small dealership that I worked at with busted or howling 9 1/4" rear axles that were literally too many to count over the years and I have no confidence in the 9 1/4".  Others have had better luck but I'm not willing to risk my life or my truck on an axle with such a poor track record when there are much better alternatives out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the extensive feedback

The potential crush sleeve issue alone has me pulling back. I want something I can "set and forget"

A Ford 9" swap is a possibility. I don't like the low pinion but it won't be wheeled in extreme conditions (more than likely) and a pinion guard would probably deflect any would-be threats related to the type of terrain it will see.

A rear GM Corp 14-bolt or D60 seem like better options. I hear the 14BFF is one of the easier axles to set up.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,558 Posts
There is an eliminator kit from Ratech that eliminates the crush sleeve in favor of a solid spacer and shims.  I can't say how good it is since I have never used it myself since it only eliminates one of the 9 1/4" axle's problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Elwenil said:
There is an eliminator kit from Ratech that eliminates the crush sleeve in favor of a solid spacer and shims. I can't say how good it is since I have never used it myself since it only eliminates one of the 9 1/4" axle's problems.
I can find a 14BFF or D60 rear for $100 and have virtually nothing to worry about with the tires I'll run and with the type of wheeling I'll be doing. A good rebuild and a locker should last me until I'm able to get to phase II, which will be more extreme. I'd be able to keep the 14BFF or D60 (and upgrade the 60 to 35-spline shafts later) ,which is another plus , to be able to sustain the bigger tires and increased torque load.

It sounds like the 9.25" would be a keeper for a show truck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,501 Posts
I have run an RC with 35" boggers and a lockrite, 318/727 with 2200 rpm stall converter.  blew up several u-joints, and the front d44 spider gears.  Did not have any problems with the 9.25, but that may have been due to losing the ujoints before any more serious harm could be done.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,766 Posts
Juggernaut said:
It sounds like the 9.25" would be a keeper for a show truck
Not really if you would have read and comprehended all that Elwenil stated.

Elwenil said:
In my '88 W150 show truck I destroyed the factory limited slip after having the truck about a week with. ........... until I rolled it a year or so later. The pinion got loose enough to lock the ring and pinion in a turn which transferred all the weight of the lifted truck to the outside and flopping my $38k show truck on its side. ............. I blame the rear axle for the whole mess. Since then I have never owned a truck with a 9 1/4",
On that note.

I have had 4 different Dodge trucks.

1 89 D100 with a 5.2 TBI and a 727 and 9.25, never had a problem running cross country while loaded. Sold it and got a commuter.

1 85 Dodge Ramcharger with 31s, 3.23s and a 5.2. I have a lot of miles on that truck and I had the 9.25 gone through when the LSD went out. Replaced it with an Auburn Gear LSD had all the bearings redone and the load settins redone. That was back in 2002. I have yet to have any problems with the axle. I live in Northern Nevada and take it out on mountain trails and desert playa as well as using the truck to pull trailers to other trucks and cars. That Ramcharger has moved me and my family three to four times pulling a rented uhaul, a 66 barracuda as well as borrowed trailers or home made trailers here and there. Once a large dump trailer with a Piano and a bunch of nice furniture. No problems with the 9.25 in that Ramcharger.

I have a 1990 Dodge W150. Ex forest service truck. Has a 5.9 TBI with a D 44 and a NP 435 and 9.25 with a Detroit Locker. I drove all the way to Moab, UT from Carson City, NV romped all around for a couple days, bent a driveshaft after replacing it drove it home. The truck has been through some nasty canyons and areas in Nevada. I have put 33s and 35s on it and once a worn set of 36 hummer tires. Didnt fit so well. Gearing was/is 3.55s.

I plan to keep it and run it on 35s till it breaks, then will upgrade to a 60.

Lemons are out there. No doubt. Millions of Dodge trucks, vans and cars are running 9.25s. Carry some spare shafts and a couple of C clips and if you ride it so hard you go through all your spares then upgrade. Until then run what you got. A lot of people on here including some of the Moab regulars run just what you want. 33s and 35s with 4.10s consistantly and dont report problems.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
{agree}

the only weak spot really IMO is the C clip end of the axle. Now that said, in 30 years of wheeling and doing it in Dodge trucks of all vintages and yes 1/2 tons with 9.25s I've never seen a c clip or that end break.... Never.

Has it happened? yes

to me or anyone I know? no

The 9.25 has the largest diameter axle shafts of any 1/2 ton design by the big three. You need some really steep gears, and tires that have no business being on a half ton axle to break a shaft by over torquing them.

A couple of years ago a member of our chapter (BC) snapped his D60 axles when we removed the shafts we mic'd them and the were smaller in diam than any of our spare 9.25s. so if you think a D60 has strong axle shafts the we have to maybe give the nod that as far as rotational torque handling capabilities the 9.25 is on par with them.

Wait! you guys ready to crucify me. ;)

the 9.25 cannot mathematically carry the same weight as the D60 though or have the same side load capabilities...... In theory. ;)

For 2 years, all year long, even in -40 weather when I lived WAY up north. I used the bitch to haul water to my cistern. I loaded my water tank into the back of the truck (a 400 gallon tank! :eek: ) drove to the water tower filled her to the brim and drove home every week at least once. I NEVER HAVE HAD A ISSUE WITH THAT AXLE PERIOD. Same axle is in the bitch now 250 000+ kms ( Over 150,000 miles) and I've never changed a bearing let alone a axle shaft in it. I have no issues saying a 9.25 will easily handle 36" tires I had 38s on my RC with never a issue (the bitch has metric 36s now with 4.56s in it) no prob.

Just my .02,
DB426 :)

PS, the weight of an Imperial gallon is 10lbs. so I was carrying 2 TONS of water in the truck, is that strong enough for your needs? ;D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
Oh and Elwenil has a valid point about the crush sleaves...... sort of ;)

The old ones were notably softer and as parts wore and slop would develop this would ad to the twisting load onto the sleeve it would bend.... and the cycle would go till it let go.

the newer axle have a different design and all sleeves now are of better metals.

So I'd heed Elwenil's warning there if it's a older axle with a stock crush sleeve. but if you changed it out and threw some new pinion bearings in at the same time IMO it would THEN be a moot point ;)

DB426 8)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,558 Posts
Sorry but I am going to have to call BS on this improved crush sleeve idea.  The part number of the crush sleeve is 3507678 and was used from the '70s all the way up to 2005.  As anyone who has worked in Mopar Parts before knows, Mopar will not revise a part without changing the part number or in later years adding an AA, AB, AC, etc suffix on it to track it.  So I'm going to have to call BS on the crush sleeve changing since the part number never changed, nor did the torque specs or procedure that would indicate a heavier crush sleeve and nothing about one is mentioned int he TSBs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
I'm not talking about Mopar parts  ::)

but ok, I guess I'm BSing ;)


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
Elwenil
07-17-2006, 06:28 AM
I personally do not like the 9.25 because of the crush sleeve preload issues and the resulting pinion bearing problems. This is what causes the drivetrain slack you hear clunking in just about every automatic Dodge out there. I have never broken anything in a 9.25" except for spider gears and limited slip units, but it is a total pain in the ass to tear it down and redo the pinion preload all the time if you run it hard. Some people are not concerned about it, I personally despise the clunking and odd wear patterns. Go for the D60, it's less trouble and more upgradable in the future.

Elwenil
06-21-2008, 11:05 AM
It's been done and years ago when I was having issues with my lifted '88 W150's 9.25, Reider Racing mentioned that someone was supposed to be working on a crush sleeve eliminator kit but to my knowledge it never hit the market. The way I have seen it done was to machine a spacer that takes up most of the space and then use pinion shims from a small Dana axle, though I don't remember which one.

For the record, I know people have had success with the 9.25, but I still feel it is a poor substitute to the 8.75 it replaced in 1975. When I bought my '88 4 speed Ramcharger I drove it home about 3 miles and it never left my driveway until I had the front and rear Dana 60s swapped over. I will never own another 9.25 equipped truck, at least not for long, lol.

Elwenil
06-21-2008, 10:05 PM
We have been discussing the 9.25 over at RCC for a while and this link to a 9.25 (as well as 7.25, 8.25, and the 8.75) crush sleeve eliminator kit was posted up this evening:

http://www.ratechmfg.com/chryslerspbs.htm

Props go to RCC member KThaxton for posting.

Ok I get it now, those are from Pirate 4x4 and one thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-31169.html

So you don't like them, you state quite clearly you don't like them in those threads, and that's ok. but you posts here are more a bash the part statement than say: "i just don't like them"

I can see you take offense to me possibly offering a different point of veiw you are set in stone about, and will from now on take everything you post back at me with that in mind.

You Do realize:

1 I gave you Koodo's and you still have to call me out ???

2 "the crush sleeve issue" you hate has been eliminated by better crush sleeves and solid spacers, you even provide a link to the part. ???

Oh wait, I'm BSing, Right....... just like the cable issue from the other thread ::)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,558 Posts
Dodgeboy426 said:
I'm not talking about Mopar parts ::)

but ok, I guess I'm BSing ;)
You are not talking about Mopar parts? What are you talking about then?

Dodgeboy426 said:
Oh and Elwenil has a valid point about the crush sleaves...... sort of ;)

The old ones were notably softer and as parts wore and slop would develop this would ad to the twisting load onto the sleeve it would bend.... and the cycle would go till it let go.

the newer axle have a different design and all sleeves now are of better metals.

So I'd heed Elwenil's warning there if it's a older axle with a stock crush sleeve. but if you changed it out and threw some new pinion bearings in at the same time IMO it would THEN be a moot point ;)

DB426 8)
This is your quote. YOU said that the old crush sleeves were softer and weaker. Then you said that the newer axles have a different design (which they don't) and that the sleeves, note YOUR use of the word sleeves, are now made of better metals. Nothing in any of your posts says anything about Ratech's eliminator kit which is a solid spacer and shims, not a crush sleeve. So I can only assume by the use of your terminology that you are talking about Mopar parts or similar stock replacements. To my knowledge there has never been an "aftermarket crush sleeve" that is somehow better for the 9 1/4". Even the ones found in the Master Install Kits are identical to the Mopar piece and use the same torque specs and have the same problems.

On the last post:

1. Kudos don't really mean a whole lot. I appreciate the support but in the end it's just simple facts that I am passing on. I'm not sure what the "I'm not talking about Mopar parts" bit is about unless you are just unwilling to admit you may be wrong and are just trying to bullshit your way out of it.

2. While the crush sleeve issue may be eliminated by Ratech's kit, I would be surprised if they have even sold 700 of those kits yet. Very few people know about it in comparison to how many 9 1/4" axles are out there. So it's not like it's a moot point and I can't honestly say for sure that it takes care of the problem since I have not used it myself.

As for you "BS'ing", you called BS on me for saying that the kits I had experience with were not good because your kit had lasted X number of years. In this thread I do think you are BS'ing since you seem to be grasping at straws to retain some small measure of credibility when in reality it's just making your arguments that much more feeble. You decided to take some sort of offense to my eluding to the fact that due to the average snowfall in Covington area being around 18" a year total and the slightly higher average snowfall of 21.5" and between 4'-8' in the surrounding mountains in Kamloops BC, that just maybe, just possibly someone in your area might use their 4WD system more often than someone here in Covington that might keep the cable from seizing completely. But no, I'm just a typical American that is dumb as a stump and assumes that Canada is like Antarctica in your opinion so not logic I can muster would make any sense to you. But again, this is yet another colossal waste of time and serves no purpose. My knowledge of Mopars and '72-'93 Dodge trucks specifically should speak for itself by now and that is all the credibility I need. Any asinine comments from you just shows your desperation and makes you look foolish. Have a great weekend. ;D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
Are you for real? ::)

Other companies make parts for the 9.25 rear end...  
Those are the parts I'm talking about

You were quoting Mopar part numbers...  {stupid}

I guess Dana, Moog, all these other companies don't count right? And you're right I didn't mention the sleeve eliminator ::)

So, to get you up to speed (it's 2010 you know) metal manufacturing techniques have improved in 30 years. you can now build a better sleeve, with different properties: elasticity, tensile strength, ductility, etc.... you can heat treat better now. Oh and use better radius corners on them now too. We can design the metal so as you "Crush it" it work hardens to a higher strength then the old ones therefore being a "newer design", and "Better" giving better support, all that without changing the procedure to install it or the final torque readings. Kinda like piston rings: 30 years ago you had cast iron rings period, now look at what we have, or pistons for that matter! how many fit the same size hole, into the same size/shape chamber, for the same stroke, but are "better" than the old cast ones from Ma Mopar? ( Some she even makes herself!  :eek: ).


You're the one getting all bent out of shape and making yourself look like a dolt and perpetuating the "Ignorant American" stereo type not me. If you would be more open minded and not let your personal feelings get in your way you might have more options :p

Db426

Oh, did you know that company's make off set ball joints and bushings for A, B, and E Bodies to correct steering issues and geometry? It didn't make Ma Mopar change her part numbers though so you won't believe it I guess LMAO  {think}
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,558 Posts
Am I for real?  Look at you.  You don't even know who I am and yet you have been blowing off all my recommendations that are based on real world experience like I'm some asshole who has never turned a wrench and then when I question your comments all you can do is blow smoke without any specifics.  I'm not going to list my experience unless it's completely necessary but trust me when I say I have years of experience working with Chrysler, specifying and selling parts, restoring many assorted Mopars, welding and fabricating.  I'm not another jackass with a keyboard who only web wheels.  I seem to be fairly respected on several forums for my advice and opinions and certainly deserve a little more respect that I am getting from you.  The very fact that you are babbling on about crush sleeves and making them out of better metal tells me that you have no clue what you are talking about.  Have you ever rebuilt a 9 1/4"?  Have you ever setup a ring and pinion in anything?  Just do me one thing, one simple thing.  Name me a brand name of parts that markets a "stronger" crush sleeve for a Chrysler 9 1/4" rear axle and provide a link to it.

I look like a dolt?  You are the one discounting everything I post with nothing to back it up except your words.  If I were the typical "ignorant American" I would have long ago threatened to whip your ass so I don't think I fall into that category.  As for open minded, what am I being closed minded about?  Your imaginary high strength crush sleeve?  Oh and the word is stereotype, one word not two.

Yes I know all about ball joints that are half-assed attempts to repair bent or worn out suspension parts instead of replacing them like they should be.  I sold Moog, TRW, and several other brands of suspension and steering parts.  You know what technology and better metalurgy did for ball joints and tie rod ends?  If made them weaker and more prone to failure since you can hardly find a real steel joint anymore since most have gone to the plastic joints.  You probably have some imaginary answer to explain away all of that real world experience too.  But again, please post a link to your wonderful crush sleeve that no one has ever heard of.  Otherwise I don't want to hear anything else out of you since it makes little sense and is a just so much babbling on the Internet without purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,249 Posts
I firmly stand by the 8.75" it's the king of Half-Ton Rear Axles (in my eyes), and makes a great Muscle Car Rear too.

The only 9.25" i never heard/felt Clunk was the one in my '76 Ramcharger.  I dunno, maybe the 40" Mudders absorbed the clunk and the exhaust drowned out the sound though  :p  All the other 9.25's produced the same Clunk when the truck was put in gear.  Come to think of it, my uncle's 1500 ate a 9.25" a few years after he bought it.  IIRC it locked up going down the road at 50, something to do with the pinion.  Can't quite remember the exact cause though, it's been too many years.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
Elwenil,

Like I said before, I'm not sure what your issue is other than you have a problem with me because I take issue with some of the flatulence you type. I POLITELY interjected my opinions and you acted like a child about it.

There are quite a few long term members here that can attest to my knowledge, experience and abilities. many have parts and items I fabricated.

When you blanket statement stuff you open yourself up to critique, you need to grow up and learn to deal with it.

I don't owe you anything, let alone respect, you haven't earned it from me. and after your last couple posts of personal ignorance, you won't get it. I'm sure we can keep going but I only engage in banter when it's constructive, either the person I'm engaged with or I stand to learn something. I can't learn anything from you because this is a personal vendetta to you now because I called you on something. All you want to do is try to get even about it. Too bad really, for a while there I thought it was going to be the start of a new friendship, but I can't stand ignorant people that can't hear anyone else's opinions.

I was going to post a reply specifically dealing with the last volley of crap at me and how I dared to question your all knowing wisdom, but I won't, the fact you accuse me of stuff I didn't say, and the fact your own post does more damage to your credibility than I ever could.

Good day,
DB426

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
time to agree to disagree or just agree that you don't like each other and move on now.  i think enough has been said. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,548 Posts
I've had many 9.25's and several over 250K miles.  They do have the problem with the clunk but I've driven them over 100k miles like that.  I've never seen or heard of a C-clip failure with one.  I think the GM 10 bolt got everyone scared of c-clip axles.  84ish and up 9.25 have thicker c-clips also.  I personally think its the strongest 1/2 ton axle ever made.  I feel that it is stronger then the 8 3/4 and 9" in many ways.  But its still a half ton axle.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,229 Posts
chrysler300le said:
I've had many 9.25's and several over 250K miles. They do have the problem with the clunk but I've driven them over 100k miles like that. I've never seen or heard of a C-clip failure with one. I think the GM 10 bolt got everyone scared of c-clip axles. 84ish and up 9.25 have thicker c-clips also. I personally think its the strongest 1/2 ton axle ever made. I feel that it is stronger then the 8 3/4 and 9" in many ways. But its still a half ton axle.
{agree} ;)
 
1 - 20 of 73 Posts
Top