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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I caught a break in my deployment activities to comment on this outrageous notion that Arizona wants to cleanse their state of those illegal pillars of society from down south.

I figured that someone would have posted the major points of the new law here, but I have not seen them yet, so here they are.

    * The new Arizona law mirrors federal law, which already requires aliens (non-citizens) to register and carry their documents with them (8 USC 1304(e) and 8 USC 1306(a)). The new Arizona law simply states that violating federal immigration law is now a state crime  as well. Because illegal immigrants are by definition in violation of federal immigration laws, they can now be arrested by local law enforcement in Arizona.
    * The law is designed to avoid the legal pitfall of "pre-emption," which means a state can't adopt laws that conflict with federal laws. By making what is a federal violation also a state violation, the Arizona law avoids this problem.
    * The law only allows police to ask about immigration status in the normal course of "lawful contact" with a person, such as a traffic stop or if they have committed a crime.
    * Estimates from the federal government indicate that more than 80 percent of illegal immigrants come from Latin America.(12) Thus, there is concern that police may target only Hispanics for enforcement.
    * Before asking a person about immigration status, law enforcement officials are required by the law to have "reasonable suspicion" that a person is an illegal immigrant. The concept of "reasonable suspicion" is well established by court rulings. Since Arizona does not issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, having a valid license creates a presumption of legal status. Examples of reasonable suspicion include:
          o A driver stopped for a traffic violation has no license, or record of a driver's license or other form of federal or state identification.
          o A police officer observes someone buying fraudulent identity documents or crossing the border illegally.
          o A police officer recognizes a gang member back on the street who he knows has been previously deported by the federal government.
    * The law specifically states that police, "may not solely consider race, color or national origin" when implementing SB 1070.
    * When Arizona's governor signed the new law, she also issued an executive order requiring the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board to provide local police with additional training on what does and what does not constitute "reasonable suspicion."(13)

From what I can read, there is no new stricter immigration policy, only enforcement of existing Federal law, which the current administration is no willing to enforce, either directly or indirectly.
In fact, the Holder Hand Puppet Justice department has called in the heavy hitter Ivy League thinkers to see if they can sue Arizona for having the audacity to enforce the Federal Law that the FEDS will not enforce.

IMHO, I see the lack of action to be the death knell to Arizona if they DO NOT do something about it. There was an NCIS statistic that said there was a disproportionate amount of crime being committed by illegals. This to me is justification enough.

Then I read yesterday where California, a NY senator (last name latino origin) and others want an economic boycott of Arizona. Really? We have a Senate representative actively campaigning to undermine the economy of a state in the union? We have California that has just done a BANG UP JOB of managing their welfare state, that they are resorting to legalizing drugs for recreational use, in order to make up the difference in what they cannot raise in legitimate taxes to make up the difference.

This law is nothing more than the enforcement of existing law, yet the liberal left wants to turn this to a race issue.

Obummner calls this law "misguided". You have to be shitting me. We have the most liberal immigration policies in the world.

Now Calderon is whining because he can no longer tell HIS citizens that if they need health care, they can get it for free north of the border.

I cannot wrap my mind around this argument.

To me, the lib/dems, want to kill this law, grant amnesty to the illegals, and grant them citizenship so that there will be an instant voter base increase for them, but that is just my conservative opinion.

Any thoughts?


-Tommy
 

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Okiedodge said:
To me, the lib/dems, want to kill this law, grant amnesty to the illegals, and grant them citizenship so that there will be an instant voter base increase for them, but that is just my conservative opinion.

Any thoughts?

-Tommy
I just read about this yesterday.

Yes the votes are a factor, the sueing is simply a scare tactic to keep other states from doing the same. I hope TX is the next state to do the same. The Fed gov needs a wake up call and if it takes one state at a time to do so well then........

Personally I think this law is great. I don't give a crap about the PC of it because this whole country is too flippin PC for me and it will be part of the downfall. It's a law enforce it! Stop imprisoning boarder guards for doing their job. :mad:
 

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We should probably give this some time to see how it works out, there are clear pros/cons to this.

On paper it sounds ok. Now lets see how it is applied. Will it be just and fair? Will a lot of US citizens be harassed? Will this be used as an excuse to start doing even more random checks, ect ect? Can local LE handle this?

Around here you can usually get away with 10-15mph over, because they are too over burdened with more important things.

Should probably sit back, watch it unfold, and be thankful you are not the beta tester.
 

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s ǝoɾ said:
We should probably give this some time to see how it works out, there are clear pros/cons to this.

On paper it sounds ok. Now lets see how it is applied. Will it be just and fair? Will a lot of US citizens be harassed? Will this be used as an excuse to start doing even more random checks, ect ect? Can local LE handle this?

Around here you can usually get away with 10-15mph over, because they are too over burdened with more important things.

Should probably sit back, watch it unfold, and be thankful you are not the beta tester.
I understand your point Joe and it is valid. BUT are the people of the state willing to sacrifice a bit to stop this invasion of illegals? {noclue}

I would if it meant jobs for my kids, wife, me. If it meant that our state will be saving money on welfare, and health care costs. Fed S.S. savings, now health care savings. There is a big list of things that the costs will go down on if this problem is taken care of.

For the record; I have no problem with them coming here as long as they go through the legal process to be here and learn to speak and READ English. ;D
 

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s ǝoɾ said:
Around here you can usually get away with 10-15mph over, because they are too over burdened with more important things.
Around here they are nailing people for 2 or 3 mph over. All the local police dept's and sheriff's offices are broke so its an easy revenue generator. Just ask my mother in law :p

I agree. On paper this bill looks great, but how it actually ends up being implemented remains to be seen. I also agree that people are turning it into a race issue for no reason. Yes people are coming across the border in droves every day, do almost all of those happen to be mexican, yes. So naturally what population are you going to target. Hispanics. Does that mean the cops are racists because they target a group of people who are committing the crime? No.

Its only "racist" because white people are involved. If it were a majority of black people involved in this legislation it wouldn't be racist.
 

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Dodge 85 RC said:
I also agree that people are turning it into a race issue for no reason. Yes people are coming across the border in droves every day, do almost all of those happen to be mexican, yes. So naturally what population are you going to target. Hispanics. Does that mean the cops are racists because they target a group of people who are committing the crime? No.

Its only "racist" because white people are involved. If it were a majority of black people involved in this legislation it wouldn't be racist.
Agreed.
 

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Tony, that's why I said we should all sit back and wait, because not a single one of us KNOWS how this will work.

It may have no impact on citizens life, SAVE LE money, lower crime, everything else people dream of. That's the utopia version. Best case scenario.

The dystopia version is, it may greatly increase tax rates, over burden LE, cause race riots/increased violence, be abused for infringement on citizen rights, and do nothing to stop the problem. That is the worst case scenario.

It is practically impossible to be a perfect scenario, and not likely to completely fit the dystopic worst case scenario. It will fall somewhere in between, that's why I say let's just sit back and see what Arizona can teach us [or teach us not to do]. Isn't much use to armchair quarterback on things we don't know what we are talking about (because it hasn't been done before).

I'm not about to celebrate or protest something I don't even know what is. ;D
 

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s ǝoɾ said:
Tony, that's why I said we should all sit back and wait, because not a single one of us KNOWS how this will work.

It may have no impact on citizens life, SAVE LE money, lower crime, everything else people dream of. That's the utopia version. Best case scenario.

The dystopia version is, it may greatly increase tax rates, over burden LE, cause race riots/increased violence, be abused for infringement on citizen rights, and do nothing to stop the problem. That is the worst case scenario.

It is practically impossible to be a perfect scenario, and not likely to completely fit the dystopic worst case scenario. It will fall somewhere in between, that's why I say let's just sit back and see what Arizona can teach us [or teach us not to do]. Isn't much use to armchair quarterback on things we don't know what we are talking about (because it hasn't been done before).

I'm not about to celebrate or protest something I don't even know what is. ;D
Yes I see and understand. ;) I guess I'm just looking at it this way. It is law and they are illegals, so it should be enforced. The fed doesn't seem to want to do it. BUT something must be done so........ I am glad that something is being done about it at least even if it's just a "test run" for other states.

How's that? ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am more miffed that they are protesting a law that merely enforces an existing law.

They are whining because if you break the Law in Arizona, you get punished.

 

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Okiedodge said:
I am more miffed that they are protesting a law that merely enforces an existing law.

They are whining because if you break the Law in Arizona, you get punished.
As several RCC'ers have already proved, NO MATTER WHAT, you will have someone complaining. "it's not cloudy enough today" "Gas is too cheap" Both of those complaints, are REAL LIFE complaints I have heard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
And the FEDS introduce the double standard by presenting legislation that requires everyone to carry an ID card so that people know that you are legal to work here.

How is that not a double standard?

What a bunch of ass clowns
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
s ǝoɾ said:
As several RCC'ers have already proved, NO MATTER WHAT, you will have someone complaining. "it's not cloudy enough today" "Gas is too cheap" Both of those complaints, are REAL LIFE complaints I have heard.
I agree with you Joe, but the Arizona law does nothing but enforce existing federal law and in fact aligns Arizona law with the Federal Law.
 

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Okiedodge said:
I agree with you Joe, but the Arizona law does nothing but enforce existing federal law and in fact aligns Arizona law with the Federal Law.
Are you saying no one was complaining before this? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
s ǝoɾ said:
Are you saying no one was complaining before this? ;)
No, I am saying that they were complaining that there was nothing getting done about the problem, they addressed it and now they are being insensitive and racist.

It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the law.

How did you get your name upside down? Are you typing while standing on your head? ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
˙ǝɥɔɐpɐǝɥ ɐ ǝɯ sǝʌıƃ pɐǝɥ ʎɯ uo ƃuıpuɐʇs  ˙ʇı ʇoƃ o ʞo
 

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Okiedodge said:
How did you get your name upside down? Are you typing while standing on your head? ;D
s ǝoɾ said:
˙ʎɯɯoʇ 'ǝnןɔ ou ǝʌɐɥ ı
Okiedodge said:
˙ǝɥɔɐpɐǝɥ ɐ ǝɯ sǝʌıƃ pɐǝɥ ʎɯ uo ƃuıpuɐʇs ˙ʇı ʇoƃ o ʞo
Well I see where I fit in the food chain.... :(....just because I asked that upside down guy how he did it a couple of weeks ago.... {noclue}....and never received a response.... :eek:.... ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
squads51 said:
Well I see where I fit in the food chain.... :(....just because I asked that upside down guy how he did it a couple of weeks ago.... {noclue}....and never received a response.... :eek:.... ;D
I looked it up on that there interwebbernet.
;D
 

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Okiedodge said:
I looked it up on that there interwebbernet.
;D
There are times that I fall into the neanderthal category when it comes to things on the computer....I wouldn't have a clue as to where to look....meanwhile, back at the topic....

Should the local LEO's begin to enforce this state law and enforce it with efficiency....they will still have to rely on the Feds (INS) to provide the deportation paperwork, transportation, etc for it to truly succeed....and there is where the choke point may be encountered....then the backlog begins to snowball....unless of course they have already made provisions for this area....which I doubt....normally logistics is the last thing thought of, if at all....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
squads51 said:
There are times that I fall into the neanderthal category when it comes to things on the computer....I wouldn't have a clue as to where to look....meanwhile, back at the topic....

Should the local LEO's begin to enforce this state law and enforce it with efficiency....they will still have to rely on the Feds (INS) to provide the deportation paperwork, transportation, etc for it to truly succeed....and there is where the choke point may be encountered....then the backlog begins to snowball....unless of course they have already made provisions for this area....which I doubt....normally logistics is the last thing thought of, if at all....
Here is your new avatar. ;D

 
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