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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi all, i was given a complete valve train setup minus cam for a 1990 318 with a set of 302 heads and a roller lifter setup.

having not had any experience with a roller set up, of course this raises a few questions.

1. is there any reason this setup will not work on a 318 out of a 1976 ramcharger?

2. are there any special mods i will have to make to use this setup?

3. where can i get a good, affordable performance or RV cam for this setup. i looked up stock replacement specs and it is showing a 270sae duration with a 417 lift.

4. if i cant use the roller setup on an older engine, is there any reason i can't or shouldn't use the valve springs or the valves themselves on an older set of heads, say a set of 593 or even a set of 360 596 castings? also are the 302 valves the same size as a regular set of 318 valves?

5. did the 302/308 swirlport heads still use the 1.5:1 rocker ratio?

if this setup will work in an older LA block, this engine will most likely be installed in a truck.

also having never used a roller setup before can someone give me a general description of what makes a roller cam a roller cam and what the difference is between a roller cam and a regular hydraulic cam.

any and all advice and information on this will be greatly appreciated.

thanks

eric
 

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hmmm k.

a roller cam obviously has a roller wheel in the bottom. this roller wheel can travel much steeper angles than a "flat tappet"

after just so much angle the flat tappet would attempt to just dig into the side insdie of riding over the "hill"

so a roller lifter allows use of a square lobe cam rather than regular lobe. the difference is this. [] vs /\ see how the roller lobe goes from open to shut much faster.

some mention frictional losses but dont worry about that.

you need the cam with it too. or another grind roller cam for LA engine.

the stock rollers arent too impressive. quite heavy.

why would you only pirate the springs or valves from a real good casting # head.

the heads dont have to use a roller cam. throw in pushrods/cam/lifters for regular LA engine and off you go.

the 302 is a "2bbl head" and therefore has the small valves. why some one would try to install 1.75 or is it 1.78"? valves in a head that came with factory 1.88" valves is beyond me.

yup 1.5 ratio.

basically best bet is throw these onto short block of your choice. have valves upgraded to factory 360 4bbl.

do any clean up you so choose.

http://ramchargercentral.com/boards/index.php?board=103;action=display;threadid=14826

paul pitcher also has a good article on small block heads. do a search on yahoo.
 

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Just a quick note from me. In order for roller lifters to work, they hafta be held down so they don't turn. The block for a roller cam engine has threaded bosses where the lifters sit. The lifters have a small bracket that holds a pair of lifters and bolts into the aforementioned bosses. I did run across a set of lifters in a Summit catalog that are roller lifters, but made so that they will work in a non-roller block. They have a different setup on the bracket. Roller lifters for a small block chrysler are kinda pricey compared to flat lifters.
 

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the bracket between each roller is called a cross bar or link bar
 

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318 valve sizes are 1.78 intake and 1.50 exhaust for all 318 heads....the 360 heads use 1.88 valves and 1.60. You could install 2.02 valves in the 318 heads, but i doubt you need it unless you're planning on some deep breathing.
Also, the roller lifters use a girdle plate, that I believe bolts to the lifter valley, I dont know if the older blocks are drilled for this.
C.J.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ok, lets try and reply to all of this

fist off, joe, i wasnt planning on installing the smaller valves in a set of 360 heads, i wanted to know if the springs would work in a set of 360 heads, i AM aware that they did use diferent size valves.
i guess after rereading that i should have clarified, i was wondering if the valves themselves would fit in a set of 593 318 heads, or if the springs could be used on a set of 596 360 heads.

as far as just pirating the springs and valves, i dont have the 302 heads, just the valve train out of them, due to the fact that the person who gave them to me had tossed the heads due to them being cracked.

cj's84rc, i do have the girdle plates, and i believe you are right, there is no provision in an older LA engine for them to bolt down to.

so i guess for now i will not be using a roller cam/lifters in my older 318 any time soon.

ok back to trying to get my 360 finished.

eric

 
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Crane Cams offers a retrofit that allows use of rollers in pre-roller engines.
Springs will interchange, valves will too as long as they're the same size in diameter.
 

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Do the retorfit roller lifters require any block machining ?? I inquired about this once with a supplier and was told the block would need to be machined for the cross bar clearance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
TheRamChargerMan said:
Do the retorfit roller lifters require any block machining ?? I inquired about this once with a supplier and was told the block would need to be machined for the cross bar clearance.
that is a good question, and one i would really like to know before i even attempted the retrofit

eric
 

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Depends what block you have, look in the back of the block and see which R series it is, most will need to be clearanced, as will the heads need to have the pushrod guides removed in just about all heads other than the magnum style head
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Evildriver-3 said:
Depends what block you have, look in the back of the block and see which R series it is, most will need to be clearanced, as will the heads need to have the pushrod guides removed in just about all heads other than the magnum style head
ok so say we take the older 318 block have the machining done, put in a set of flat tops with a zero deck height, a set of magnum heads with an m1 dual plane and a good roller cam, would we be able to see 400 ponies out of it?
then again we could always do a mild old school stroke job on it with a 360 crank.

eric
 

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Ok say you forgot the m-1 intake and used a ag instead yeah you could see 400hp, the old school stroke would be offset grinding the crank, but with the price of the cranks nowadays it isn't worth it. If this is for more of a fun thing then a you don't want to open the hood and check things everyweek motor use a solid roller or a hyd roller cam with solid rollers and then no cutting the pushrod holes out of the heads, if it is a everyday use thing then stay away from the solid rollers
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Evildriver-3 said:
Ok say you forgot the m-1 intake and used a ag instead yeah you could see 400hp, the old school stroke would be offset grinding the crank, but with the price of the cranks nowadays it isn't worth it. If this is for more of a fun thing then a you don't want to open the hood and check things everyweek motor use a solid roller or a hyd roller cam with solid rollers and then no cutting the pushrod holes out of the heads, if it is a everyday use thing then stay away from the solid rollers
so what you are really trying to say is, finish my 360 and leave the fun project alone for a while ;D ;D

eric
 
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On the particular application I read about, it was a Crane retrofit, done in-car, with no machining. As they say, your mileage may vary, but the kit was intended to be a simple upgrade. My question would be, why bother? The rollers have certain efficiency issues , but overall, you'll make up for this in a 400hp engine by sticking with a flat tappet unit. The flat style will save over 900 grams (that's a pound of engine fat) in reciprocating mass, and this saves hp, especially in the upper rpms. A 318 will make 400hp with a CompCams XE268 and 360 heads, so your goals are easily obtainable in a streetable package.
 

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If it was done with no machining then it was a R-7 style block and new heads
 
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"CHRYSLER-DODGE-PLYMOUTH V-8 64-87, "LA" 273-318-340-360 CU. IN.
Vertical locking bar design to retrofit pre-hydraulic roller blocks. No machining required for installation."

Now, admittedly, I'm not up on all those engine block designations, but did they put R7 style blocks in '64-'87 Dodges?
 

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Hey gendak let me ask you, how many times have you used there rollers? ED-3 has twice.

I don't care wtf crane has printed, told you on the phone, showed you in a picture, ask them if they want to pick up my machining bill.

I can tell you that someone at cranecams has there head up there ass, i should take pics of all the work you have to do to the heads to use there hyd rollers, but that's what you gotta do if you want hyd rollers in a non mag motor

No they didn't use r-7 blocks in those years. So get ready to do alot of maching mostly to the heads, the block part is easy, about 10 minutes of work, imagine removing the pushrod guides in the heads, all of it practically.

Trust me, please! when i tell you guy's something it is because i have done it more than once and i know 1st hand already, i don't tell anyone anything i haven't done already.

There are times i want to take someone at crane and choke the life out of them
 
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