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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been trying to find answers to two questions I have regarding my Ramcharger. Background information first: as in the subject line, I have a 1993 Dodge Ramcharger, 4x4, 360 ci/5.9L MPFI engine. The first question is where my fuel filter is (I assume there isn't one because I've traced the fuel lines from almost by the fuel tank to the fuel rail and haven't found it).

The second problem requires quite a bit of "what I've already done that hasn't worked yet" information. I have a very strange hesitation, stutter, truck shaking vibration from the engine. The truck has nearly 133,000 miles on it and very little work has had to be done to it, other than the normal oil changes, lube jobs, and general tune up work. The truck acts just like it's "lost a cylinder or two" (as a mechanic put it to me). I'm not a professional mechanic myself, just a hobbyist on my way through Med. School, but I'm fortunate enough to have been buying Snap-On tools since I was 15 years old and even have a diagnostic computer. No fault codes were found when I ran the diagnostic computer on it. I've replaced the plug wires, plugs, cap and rotor, ignition coil, all eight fuel injectors, and have checked the ASD and Fuel Pump Relay fuses with a digital ohmmeter and they're in perfect order. As far as the replacement parts, all are Chrysler original from the dealer (except the plugs being Bosch Platinum 4's, MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor plug wires, and a K&N air and oil filters). I did a compression test and all of the cylinders were well within spec, the two rear being only 5 psi lower than the other 6, but still well within the shop manual's specifications, and I'm still left wondering where my problem is. The new fuel injectors helped the problem out tremendously. The problem used to occur just after putting it in gear and putting a little bit of throttle to it, now it just exists whenever I get going over 40mph, won't get over 65mph floorboarded now (unusual because this truck always used to practically jump out of its own skin with torque and speed) and it shakes the chasis of the truck quite vehemontly. My only last thought is getting a new fuel pump/fuel pressure regulator unit and installing it which is about $320 from Chrysler, but I'm wondering if that's the trouble. The only last note is that it also has a hard time starting. I have to crank it a few rounds, stop, then try it once more and it'll finally start, practically choke, then bring itself up to speed within about a 5 second time frame.

Any thoughts, ideas, trials, or otherwise would be greatly appreciated because this has stumped even professional mechanics and I wanted to try here before I take it to Dodge and have them try and figure it out. Many thanks ahead of time!!!
 

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where is chump? he is a wealth of info. gave me lots of adivce on my 94 dakota(still have to replace the cts,i do that on sat and get back to you steveo). have you check the timing chain? has it ever been changed. just an idea. tom
 

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The fuel filter is in the tank. From the description you gave of the porblems, I think that's where you might want to start first. Replace the filter and see how it acts after that. It might be fuel starved. Also, check your fuel pressure at the fuel rail and see how many psi you have.
 

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I think I would pull the gas tank and flush it and install a new fuel pump module as Chrysler did make a change on the in tank filter. You should be able to pick up a new Chrysler pump on the web for around $228.75 plus shipping at www.franautoparts.com . You would have to call to verify their online price. I would only use the latest Chrysler or maybe Carter pump module...forget the aftermarket. Here's a Service Bulletin on a problem similar to yours. The part numbers have probably changed. I also show an inline fuel filter for that RC but things changed right around 93 and some of the pumps started using the combination pressure regulator/filter on the fuel pump module itself. Take a look at this diagram.:)



TSB 14-05-93 Rev. B
Improved Fuel Pump

Date: Aug. 13, 1993
Models: 1989-1993 (AD) Ram Pickup/Ram Cab Chassis

Engine Application: w/3.9L or 5.2L

1991-1993 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
(AD) Ram Pickup/Ram cab & chassis/Ramcharger
(AN) Dakota/Dakota Sport/Dakota Cab & Chassis

W/5.9L

1991-1992 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
(AD) Ram Pickup/Ram Cab & Chassis/Ramcharger

Symptom/Condition:

If a customer complains of intermittent loss of power, delayed and/or no start, or driveway die out, this condition nay be due to insufficient fuel pressure caused by particulate contaminates or other type of substances by-passing the primary fuel pickup screen and resulting in fuel pump failures.

Diagnosis:

Using the Scan Tool (DRB II) and the applicable diagnostic procedure manual, or the Mopar Diagnostic System, verify that the vehicle engine systems are functioning as designed. If Trouble Codes (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) are present, record them on the repair order for future reference and repair as necessary. If no codes are present and all the system are functioning as designed, continue with the repair procedure.

Parts Required:

1 Fuel Pump Module
(AB) 4728729
(AD) Except Ramcharger 4728730
(AD) Ramcharger 4728731
(AN) 4728732

Repair Procedure:

This repair involves replacing the fuel pump module with one that has a higher capacity filter.

1. With the ignition switch in the OFF positions disconnect the battery.

2. Following the procedure listed in Section 14 of the appropriate service manual, remove and replace the fuel pump module with the new module listed under parts required.

3 . Connect the battery.
 

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i'm 90% sure you have a bad fuel pump. My 94 ram did this both times the pump went bad on me. It would shudder like crazy. It would go away if i turnd OD off. Actually my truck ran fine on a full tank but if I got below half a tank of gas it barely went over 45mph.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Chump said:
I think I would pull the gas tank and flush it and install a new fuel pump module as Chrysler did make a change on the in tank filter. You should be able to pick up a new Chrysler pump on the web for around $228.75 plus shipping at www.franautoparts.com . You would have to call to verify their online price. I would only use the latest Chrysler or maybe Carter pump module...forget the aftermarket. Here's a Service Bulletin on a problem similar to yours. The part numbers have probably changed. I also show an inline fuel filter for that RC but things changed right around 93 and some of the pumps started using the combination pressure regulator/filter on the fuel pump module itself. Take a look at this diagram.:)

TSB 14-05-93 Rev. B
Improved Fuel Pump

Date: Aug. 13, 1993
Models: 1989-1993 (AD) Ram Pickup/Ram Cab Chassis

Engine Application: w/3.9L or 5.2L

1991-1993 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
(AD) Ram Pickup/Ram cab & chassis/Ramcharger
(AN) Dakota/Dakota Sport/Dakota Cab & Chassis

W/5.9L

1991-1992 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
(AD) Ram Pickup/Ram Cab & Chassis/Ramcharger

Symptom/Condition:

If a customer complains of intermittent loss of power, delayed and/or no start, or driveway die out, this condition nay be due to insufficient fuel pressure caused by particulate contaminates or other type of substances by-passing the primary fuel pickup screen and resulting in fuel pump failures.

Diagnosis:

Using the Scan Tool (DRB II) and the applicable diagnostic procedure manual, or the Mopar Diagnostic System, verify that the vehicle engine systems are functioning as designed. If Trouble Codes (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) are present, record them on the repair order for future reference and repair as necessary. If no codes are present and all the system are functioning as designed, continue with the repair procedure.

Parts Required:

1 Fuel Pump Module
(AB) 4728729
(AD) Except Ramcharger 4728730
(AD) Ramcharger 4728731
(AN) 4728732

Repair Procedure:

This repair involves replacing the fuel pump module with one that has a higher capacity filter.

1. With the ignition switch in the OFF positions disconnect the battery.

2. Following the procedure listed in Section 14 of the appropriate service manual, remove and replace the fuel pump module with the new module listed under parts required.

3 . Connect the battery.
Thank you for your help. I was afraid it would be the pump, but decided that even if I didn't need the injectors (about a thousand bucks to replace them all) it would help me out in the end anyhow. I'll look one more time under the truck for a fuel filter, but haven't found it the three times I've looked and followed the lines yet. The problem is Napa (the only place I'll get anything non-factory from in general) shows a filter, Kragen shows the same one, and Wix shows the same as the other two so it's been bugging me to death. I've come to find that my Chevy can benefit 9 times out of ten with aftermarket parts (even down to the bare engine block from World Products), but Dodge seems to make about the best parts for Dodges. Do you know where I can get ahold of a factory service manual online? I can get one from the dealership, I'm just looking for anywhere else that might have it for a little less (if not, back to the parts dept. I go). Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
chrysler300le said:
i'm 90% sure you have a bad fuel pump. My 94 ram did this both times the pump went bad on me. It would shudder like crazy. It would go away if i turnd OD off. Actually my truck ran fine on a full tank but if I got below half a tank of gas it barely went over 45mph.
Yes, it feels fuel starved (thought it was timing at first because of the way it acted, but you can't change the timing on this one. Just curious, where'd you get a '94 from? I know they still make them in Mexico, but '93 was the last year here in the States that I know of. Just curious is all!
 

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he has a 94 Ram, not RamCharger ;). and i agree with everyone else, id start with the fuel pump/filter.

Duane
 

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Yeah, you definately won't find the fuel filter in an easy to find spot which is beyond me. My filter is in the tank of my 93 RC Canyon Sport too. Stupid to put it there especially if they know you are going to have to replace that thing one day!
 
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I am not too sure from the description, but are you sure this is not the transmission? The speeds suggest this, and usually weak fuel pressure causes engines to die while ideling, rather than cruising down the road. Just a thought.
 

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something that occurs in these engines that can cause some strange symptoms is a leaky gasket at the steel plate that is on the bottom of the intake manifold.
Your crankcase should be under a slight pressure when idling.
Pull your PCV and Crankcase air breaters from their respective holes in the valve covers, leave them danglling on their hoses, and put one hand over each hole while engine is idling. Then lift one hand. If the air puffs out, no problem. If it sucks in, prepare to spend a whole day removing your intake manifold and replacing the bottom gasket.
 

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What Bill55AZ said is very true on the Magnum engines. If the bellypan gasket goes bad you can get several different problems. And it isn't uncommon for them to go bad anywhere after 30K miles!!! Another easy way to check is to remove your breather and open the throttle body and look into the intake. If there is oil sitting or puddling in the bottom of your intake then the gasket is bad. SpeedTweaks made an aluminum replacement pan for the V6's, but I don't know if anyone makes one for the V8's. I am going to make my own before I replace mine.

Also, in an earlier post you mentioned that you paid almost $1000 for injectors? Where did you buy them? I purchased a complete set of new Bosch 19# injectors from Five O Motorsports for $220. I heard about them from the Dakota clubs. Several people have upgraded to these injectors when modifying their Magnum V8s. Sorry this is too late to help you, but if you or anyone else need some in the future?

Here is the link:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsDODGE.asp
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just thought I would update a bit. Changed the fuel filter only, not the entire pump because it has the correct fuel pressure and more than passes the leakdown test. Cleaned out the gas tank when I changed the filter. New battery and new battery cables really helped out, and the tranny was looked at by a professional-tranny's fine. Still has the same kind of problem, but now it's nearly perfect when cold and as it warms up it starts having the same problems again. Checked all sensors, except the cam and crankshaft position sensors because they're a little harder to get to, and they all check out correctly according to the shop manual as well as the correct voltage coming from the computer. Also, followed the advice about checking the intake manifold gasket and belly pan-all tests passed there. Seems to be a problem with a ground somewhere-just a thought, but I think after another day or two worth of tracing lines down and checking them all, I think I'm going to throw in the towel and take it to the dealership and let them look it over.

Just updating...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Now I feel dumb. Had the idea this was the problem to begin with, but didn't know it was as easy to check as it is. The timing chain is the problem. Causing me all of my headaches. My question, though, is where would I pick up a better than factory timing chain? Anyone have any ideas on that, I would greatly appreciate it. While I'm at it, just because I believe in doing everything at once, I'm replacing the oil pan gasket, oil pump pickup screen, water pump, heater and radiator hoses, but finding a timing chain that would be better than the factory would be great. Thanks ahead of time and for everyone's help before.
 

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cds2468 said:
Now I feel dumb. Had the idea this was the problem to begin with, but didn't know it was as easy to check as it is. The timing chain is the problem. Causing me all of my headaches. My question, though, is where would I pick up a better than factory timing chain? Anyone have any ideas on that, I would greatly appreciate it. While I'm at it, just because I believe in doing everything at once, I'm replacing the oil pan gasket, oil pump pickup screen, water pump, heater and radiator hoses, but finding a timing chain that would be better than the factory would be great. Thanks ahead of time and for everyone's help before.
Your truck is screwed man, you might as well just sell it to me. I'll give you $1000 for it, if it is in good shape.

Just kidding man. Double Roller timing chain. Ebay always has them on there, just go to ebay motors and search "mopar 360 timing" or click right here.
 

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I might add here I just changed my fuel pump module on my 93 ramcharger, 5.9 mpfi. It was the without return line version. There are two filters on module. One on the bottom and one that is inside the pressure regulator.

If someone was strapped for cash and needed to change the regulator/filter, I found they are available for around $65. I used an aftermarket pump module from "BIG A", $285 which comes with both. There is a lot to be said about aftermarket stuff as someone mentioned earlier. When I filled the tank up with gas the gauger only read 1/2 full. It looks like I will have to change it out again this week-end :mad:. (BIG A did warranty the part).
 

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I had a similar probem with my 1993 dodge 5.9 magnum. I finally found out that it was the fuel pump/pressure regulator/ and filter assembly that is a one piece unit mounted in the gas tank. It does cost approx. $325.00 as all it is a one piece unit.
cds2468 said:
I've been trying to find answers to two questions I have regarding my Ramcharger. Background information first: as in the subject line, I have a 1993 Dodge Ramcharger, 4x4, 360 ci/5.9L MPFI engine. The first question is where my fuel filter is (I assume there isn't one because I've traced the fuel lines from almost by the fuel tank to the fuel rail and haven't found it).

The second problem requires quite a bit of "what I've already done that hasn't worked yet" information. I have a very strange hesitation, stutter, truck shaking vibration from the engine. The truck has nearly 133,000 miles on it and very little work has had to be done to it, other than the normal oil changes, lube jobs, and general tune up work. The truck acts just like it's "lost a cylinder or two" (as a mechanic put it to me). I'm not a professional mechanic myself, just a hobbyist on my way through Med. School, but I'm fortunate enough to have been buying Snap-On tools since I was 15 years old and even have a diagnostic computer. No fault codes were found when I ran the diagnostic computer on it. I've replaced the plug wires, plugs, cap and rotor, ignition coil, all eight fuel injectors, and have checked the ASD and Fuel Pump Relay fuses with a digital ohmmeter and they're in perfect order. As far as the replacement parts, all are Chrysler original from the dealer (except the plugs being Bosch Platinum 4's, MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor plug wires, and a K&N air and oil filters). I did a compression test and all of the cylinders were well within spec, the two rear being only 5 psi lower than the other 6, but still well within the shop manual's specifications, and I'm still left wondering where my problem is. The new fuel injectors helped the problem out tremendously. The problem used to occur just after putting it in gear and putting a little bit of throttle to it, now it just exists whenever I get going over 40mph, won't get over 65mph floorboarded now (unusual because this truck always used to practically jump out of its own skin with torque and speed) and it shakes the chasis of the truck quite vehemontly. My only last thought is getting a new fuel pump/fuel pressure regulator unit and installing it which is about $320 from Chrysler, but I'm wondering if that's the trouble. The only last note is that it also has a hard time starting. I have to crank it a few rounds, stop, then try it once more and it'll finally start, practically choke, then bring itself up to speed within about a 5 second time frame.

Any thoughts, ideas, trials, or otherwise would be greatly appreciated because this has stumped even professional mechanics and I wanted to try here before I take it to Dodge and have them try and figure it out. Many thanks ahead of time!!!
 
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