'79 Macho 360 Magnum, Comp 480 cam, Hughes springs, 650 Thunder AVS, Pertronix Flamethrower ignition
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Looks good so far! Nice tac's.
'86 Ramcharger
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An issue with this swap into a Ramcharger is engine angle. The extra 2" in transmission and spacer length places the t-case just behind the hump in the floor. I've spent numerous hours the past couple of days fiddling with the engine and trans mount height shooting for 3* down in the rear relative to the frame. 5* is as good as it gets.
The issue being that the t-case is behind the mount, the mount being the pivot point. Lowering the nose of the engine then dropping the t-case to clear the floor again nets basically nothing in angle improvement. Hence I see no point in sectioning the mounts to lower the entire engine/trans with the only gain being another 1/2" of room at the floorboard.
It's dang close to the floor and may require some sheetmetal massaging with a kinetic inducer if it hits when the engine moves around. On my truck there is a 5"x 5" spreader plate for the inner seat mount welded in almost directly above so even that would be limited.
I have a plan to correct the fluid level once I verify this thing operates as it should. But anyway, the engine and trans are finally bolted in. The tape measure lied about the t-case shifter, have to tinker with that a bit and also get the rear shaft shortened. The front will now also get a Tom Woods high angle.
The electric fan type trans cooler will be a project unto itself, using ducted air from behind the bumper. Gotta get the stuff ordered for that.
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The issue being that the t-case is behind the mount, the mount being the pivot point. Lowering the nose of the engine then dropping the t-case to clear the floor again nets basically nothing in angle improvement. Hence I see no point in sectioning the mounts to lower the entire engine/trans with the only gain being another 1/2" of room at the floorboard.
It's dang close to the floor and may require some sheetmetal massaging with a kinetic inducer if it hits when the engine moves around. On my truck there is a 5"x 5" spreader plate for the inner seat mount welded in almost directly above so even that would be limited.
I have a plan to correct the fluid level once I verify this thing operates as it should. But anyway, the engine and trans are finally bolted in. The tape measure lied about the t-case shifter, have to tinker with that a bit and also get the rear shaft shortened. The front will now also get a Tom Woods high angle.
The electric fan type trans cooler will be a project unto itself, using ducted air from behind the bumper. Gotta get the stuff ordered for that.
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29,507 Posts
Is there room to move the engine/ trans forward an inch or two?
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No sir. No room between the water pump and the electric fans. Not sure there'd be room enough with a mechanical fan either. The best cure would be to cut the floor and move the hump back as needed, but I've already sprayed mine with Lizard Skin and covered it with Dynaliner, plus the seat mount and console thing. I don't want to get into all of that at this point, but if it's a problem that simply must be fixed due to vibration etc I'll do it. I have a Woods 1350 cardan shaft on the rear so it should be OK.
Clocking rings aren't the right thickness to space the t-case properly on the splines. Axis offers a clockable tailhousing, it has three choices of holes. Who knows if one of the three would be in the right spot, one can't clock it down too much without the front shaft hitting the crossmember at full droop. That also being an added consideration of being 2" further back. The tailhousing would be a $700 I hope it'll work type deal.
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I was afraid that was the case. Could always consider a 1" or so body lift. I did that when I converted a 2wd cab into a 4wd cab, not just a bolt in the hump deal like it looks.
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...Joel....bro...is it 'too late' to go with a 46RH...? I love what yer doing...but wow this is kinda starting to creep into fairly exotic voodoo territory, and take it from me it's not always as awesome as it first appears 
. A 5-speed is still pretty good and the stroker won't know the difference, and the final OD ratio is almost the same so your cruise rpm would be about a wash between the two, no? Maybe ponder how many 'issues' a 46RH solve?
. A 5-speed is still pretty good and the stroker won't know the difference, and the final OD ratio is almost the same so your cruise rpm would be about a wash between the two, no? Maybe ponder how many 'issues' a 46RH solve?
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The cage runs through the firewall and the soft top is made to fit around it as well so a body lift isn't an option.
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You just do not like things the easy way do you?
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...Joel....bro...is it 'too late' to go with a 46RH...? I love what yer doing...but wow this is kinda starting to creep into fairly exotic voodoo territory, and take it from me it's not always as awesome as it first appears
Numerous hours and cash piles spent aside, it's bolted in the truck. It's this close so I would see no point in going off on a tangent now. The angle is only off two degrees, a negligible amount. At this point in the game I can whack the floor a bit with a kinetic inducer if need be. If I'd had the foreknowledge I could have solved this issue in a couple hours back when the interior was gutted, but the t-case was still in the truck bolted to the 727 at the time. I'm plowing fresh ground. The next guy that wants one will know what needs doing beforehand.
I have to admit Sam, having seen several of your builds I find this a bit humorous. Seriously, I grinned a bit. What's so exotic about stock eight speed transmissions that are a dime a dozen at the boneyard? I would put forth the opinion that they are far easier to come by these days than a 46RH. I can't recall the last time I saw a 46RH equipped 4x4 in a boneyard, much less one with under 100k on the clock. Flexplates are now available for this swap, the t-case is unmodified, the trans and motor mounts use stock '86 parts, the starter is an over the counter piece.
Granted it uses a standalone controller, but SGA will sell those separately. Throw a spare in the glove box, paranoia solved. Once the initial setup and tune is done it can be saved then uploaded to a new controller in about two minutes if need be. Computer components have come a long way in reliability, 200k trouble free miles is commonplace these days. I may be a gray headed old fart but I'm not afraid of stepping away from the carb, points and condenser days.
As for ratios, take look. The 46RH has the same 1-3 as a 727.
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This is easy. Interesting and entertaining as well.......at least for me. You guys may need a coffee I.V. to follow my drivel.
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Pulled the t-case, massaged the floor a bit, plenty of room. The seat mount spreader plate area refused to budge much, so I ground the boss on the t-case a bit. Again, that plate is specific to my truck and otherwise a little hammer work would not be a problem. If one preferred the hump could be cut out and moved back.
After adding more room I was able to raise the trans a tad more. The angle now stands at 4*, close enough to 3* for the girls I go with.
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After adding more room I was able to raise the trans a tad more. The angle now stands at 4*, close enough to 3* for the girls I go with.
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2,337 Posts
Ordered a Derale 15870 fan type cooler with an inline 165/180 temp control, 8AN braided lines, fittings and a B&M 70395 deep pan. The pan adds 4 qts of capacity for steep angle stuff and will allow me to add fittings for a dipstick. It has a temp sensor port but since the controller reads the stock sensor and is capable of outputting that to a gauge, I might use that port to plumb in a dipstick. Or.....might go with a bulkhead fitting instead, have to get the pan here first to figure things out and it won't ship for a month.
This of course has a replaceable filter as opposed to the stocker which has the filter made into the pan and requires the entire thing to be replaced.
Can't find any depth dimensions for the B&M so I hope it clears the skid plate. There is also a shallower + 2qt pan available from Pacific Performance but the filter doesn't sit much deeper in the pan than stock. The filter sits on risers in the bottom of the sump and doesn't require an extension, so I don't see much advantage to the Pacific piece offroad.
The factory of course recommends you buy their super special $50/qt trans fluid from your local dealer and this will hold a bit over 16 qts. Yeah.....do the math on that and you'll know why I'll be using Valvoline Max Life instead. I've done quite a bit of reading on this transmission and people have done their fluid research. The Max Life is virtually indentical in chemical composition and specification. People who use it say there's no noticeable difference in shift quality, and it's less than a fifth of the price.
In the meantime much to do yet, trans wiring to tie in to the dash and engine harness, and finishing up the engine install. Cooler stuff should be here in about a week, once that's plumbed in I can fire this puppy up and see what happens.....or doesn't happen.
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This of course has a replaceable filter as opposed to the stocker which has the filter made into the pan and requires the entire thing to be replaced.
Can't find any depth dimensions for the B&M so I hope it clears the skid plate. There is also a shallower + 2qt pan available from Pacific Performance but the filter doesn't sit much deeper in the pan than stock. The filter sits on risers in the bottom of the sump and doesn't require an extension, so I don't see much advantage to the Pacific piece offroad.
The factory of course recommends you buy their super special $50/qt trans fluid from your local dealer and this will hold a bit over 16 qts. Yeah.....do the math on that and you'll know why I'll be using Valvoline Max Life instead. I've done quite a bit of reading on this transmission and people have done their fluid research. The Max Life is virtually indentical in chemical composition and specification. People who use it say there's no noticeable difference in shift quality, and it's less than a fifth of the price.
In the meantime much to do yet, trans wiring to tie in to the dash and engine harness, and finishing up the engine install. Cooler stuff should be here in about a week, once that's plumbed in I can fire this puppy up and see what happens.....or doesn't happen.
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This is the cooler I ordered, Derale says it is big enough for standalone duty. The fan is rated at 800 cfm and pulls 9 amps when running. Doesn't say what the starting amps are.
The tentative plan is to box it in facing fan up on the right inner fender, with air supplied from below via a duct at the gap between the core support and bumper. Since I also need a better air cleaner setup with fresh air I'll grab a boneyard filter box and plumb it into this plenum as well. May have to put a port in the bumper to get more air.
I realize this setup may not be optimal for fording deep water but that is extremely rare for me anyway. I can disconnect the hose to the air cleaner and unplug the fan if I ever have to bail off in 3' + of water.
The idea being the plenum/cooler will still be exposed to high pressure air at highway speeds while being protected from mud, rocks and damage. It won't have to rely 100% on the electric fan like it would mounted elsewhere, such as under the truck, and it won't block any air flow through the radiator/condenser either.
If the fan craps out the hoses can be run to the cooler in the radiator to get out of a bind, and I'll add the appropriate 8AN stuff to the toolbox for that. That cooler has too much restriction to fluid flow but should be OK for short term low RPM use to get back to civilization. A little forethought and some redundancy is always handy.
From what I've read the 8HP locks the converter in the lower gears at 1500 rpm / above idle TPS value / no brake switch input, so the converter doesn't generate lots of heat under load like we're all used to with older transmissions. I suspect this may be one reason why the factory fluid heater was added to get the trans up to temp quicker.
Been wondering if there's a feasible way to manually lock the converter for engine braking in 4 LO. Have to run it by Russel at SGA.
![Auto part Composite material Machine Gas Metal]()
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The tentative plan is to box it in facing fan up on the right inner fender, with air supplied from below via a duct at the gap between the core support and bumper. Since I also need a better air cleaner setup with fresh air I'll grab a boneyard filter box and plumb it into this plenum as well. May have to put a port in the bumper to get more air.
I realize this setup may not be optimal for fording deep water but that is extremely rare for me anyway. I can disconnect the hose to the air cleaner and unplug the fan if I ever have to bail off in 3' + of water.
The idea being the plenum/cooler will still be exposed to high pressure air at highway speeds while being protected from mud, rocks and damage. It won't have to rely 100% on the electric fan like it would mounted elsewhere, such as under the truck, and it won't block any air flow through the radiator/condenser either.
If the fan craps out the hoses can be run to the cooler in the radiator to get out of a bind, and I'll add the appropriate 8AN stuff to the toolbox for that. That cooler has too much restriction to fluid flow but should be OK for short term low RPM use to get back to civilization. A little forethought and some redundancy is always handy.
From what I've read the 8HP locks the converter in the lower gears at 1500 rpm / above idle TPS value / no brake switch input, so the converter doesn't generate lots of heat under load like we're all used to with older transmissions. I suspect this may be one reason why the factory fluid heater was added to get the trans up to temp quicker.
Been wondering if there's a feasible way to manually lock the converter for engine braking in 4 LO.
Have to run it by Russel at SGA.
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That is an interesting idea though. With the old trannies, I think the line pressure would drop too much in idle to be good for a lockup converter. With the ability to control the pressures now, it could be possible, But I bet the internals would need to be redone.
On the same line as the Allisons that use the lockup as extra gears (first, first lockup, second, second lockup, ect), But also would lockup the convertor when the jake brake is engaged.
I also agree with Sam, I do not think there would be any benefit in a light vehicle like the RC. But I would be interested in hearing what Russel has to say.
On the same line as the Allisons that use the lockup as extra gears (first, first lockup, second, second lockup, ect), But also would lockup the convertor when the jake brake is engaged.
I also agree with Sam, I do not think there would be any benefit in a light vehicle like the RC. But I would be interested in hearing what Russel has to say.
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2,337 Posts
Not sure how tight this one is. The 4spd auto in my 2012 won't move at idle on level ground which can be a bit irritating at times. Have to gas it to back out of the carport, and trying to ease back to hitch a trailer requires a bit of two foot pedal work. I've only test driven one 8spd Hemi pickup, it was a two wheel drive and I didn't pay much attention to the converter characteristics at the time.
This trans is a factory 4x4 though so it may have a tight converter and maybe some magic programmed in to the converter control, but I'm wondering if it may require a 4x4 engaged signal to access it. Can't say. I asked Russel about that aspect when I bought the Challenger shifter but he said it wouldn't be an issue. He just said either style shifter [rotary knob or floor] would operate gear selection. But his swaps have all been 2WD hotrods so....
These wonderings will be answered soon enough I reckon.... I have four wheel disc brakes which should keep the 'oh shits' to a minimum but it would be cool not to have ride them as hard down long steep stuff.
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You can see the need for adding a dipstick when this transmission is mated with a RH drop T-case. Once the front driveshaft is in place access to the fill plug and adding fluid will be nearly impossible.
Once the drivability bugs are all out I will have to rebuild the T-case. It works and shifts fine but it's a bit leaky and the bearings of the front output don't sound too good. Going to redo the trans mount to get rid of the spacers and install the rubber bushings right side up when the case is out. There's a T-case nut hidden behind the mount so it has to come back off anyway. The plan for now is to get it running,get the engine and trans tuning done and put a few miles on it, then tend to the finer points.
![Auto part Personal protective equipment Machine Engineering Metal]()
Once the drivability bugs are all out I will have to rebuild the T-case. It works and shifts fine but it's a bit leaky and the bearings of the front output don't sound too good. Going to redo the trans mount to get rid of the spacers and install the rubber bushings right side up when the case is out. There's a T-case nut hidden behind the mount so it has to come back off anyway. The plan for now is to get it running,get the engine and trans tuning done and put a few miles on it, then tend to the finer points.
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2,337 Posts
Doesn't look like nearly a full day's work does it? Still have various enclosures and air dams to make, some from metal and some from ABS. Sucks having to wait another week for two 8AN 90* fittings to get here from Sparks Nevada but nobody has them here in the Podunk area of Texas.
My original brain fart was to install the cooler horizontally with the fan facing up and tie the inlet for an air filter box into the plenum as well but it just didn't fit very well like that. So plan B for cool air to the air filter box as soon as I come up with plan B. Been kicking around another idea for a couple years, might do that instead.
The hole in the core support is roughly 105 square inches, the cooler core is 120 square inches minus the total area occupied by the fins and tubes. It will get some air through the grille, some through the opening in the lower valance, and I'm adding an air dam between the valance and the bumper to push air up into the cooler.
I think this will work out OK. Didn't want to have to get new hoses made to move the A/C receiver/dryer so I'll just build the enclosure to accommodate it and route the hose as best I can. The hose is just shoved up under fender out of the way right now, I think it will lay back into it's original position or close to it.
The fan seems to move air pretty well, rated at 800 cfm. Video link below.
Cooler fan
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My original brain fart was to install the cooler horizontally with the fan facing up and tie the inlet for an air filter box into the plenum as well but it just didn't fit very well like that. So plan B for cool air to the air filter box as soon as I come up with plan B. Been kicking around another idea for a couple years, might do that instead.
The hole in the core support is roughly 105 square inches, the cooler core is 120 square inches minus the total area occupied by the fins and tubes. It will get some air through the grille, some through the opening in the lower valance, and I'm adding an air dam between the valance and the bumper to push air up into the cooler.
I think this will work out OK. Didn't want to have to get new hoses made to move the A/C receiver/dryer so I'll just build the enclosure to accommodate it and route the hose as best I can. The hose is just shoved up under fender out of the way right now, I think it will lay back into it's original position or close to it.
The fan seems to move air pretty well, rated at 800 cfm. Video link below.
Cooler fan
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