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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 76 Power Wagon's 318 needed a rebuild.

So instead of rebuilding, I got a 1971 360 short block that just finished getting dipped and sonic tested etc today.

My friend in Nova Scotia is currently build a 360 engine for his truck (same year/model truck)
He is building his with the goal of 400 horse power, 350lbs/torque

RPM Cylinder Heads 60779,
Xtreme 277 comp
Edelbrock Performce intake 340 dual plane (Had it lying around)
Slayer 750cfm carb
Keith Black 356 pistons that had a bit more removed to get <10:1 compression

In Canada, our gas is crappy - need to keep that in mind.

Im on the other end of the country (Vancouver) and my builder is saying with a 6,000lbs truck, peak horse power is not the goal. I should be aiming for more of smooth 350 horse power, but with more torque at 400-425 ft/lbs torque.

I will add, my truck is in show room condition and all original. I doubt I will raise it, I love it looking the way it does. But I do want the truck to sound great, great throttle response, and it to move from start to 200ft down the road when I tramp on it.

So I should focus more on low end torque.

But I need the horse power to make it move. I dont want a diesel conversion but possibly a stroker but I dont think I need crazy torque as Im not towing anything or anything like that.

Anyway my builder is going to give me a list here this week what he is recommending.
He recommended PowerWorld Heads (I've never heard of these before - have you?)
And a cam for torque
Goal of not needing to go above 5,000rpm (which I agree with) so build everything for lower rpm
And a 600 cfm carb

That 600 cfm carb caught me off guard but his thesis is that the more air, the more horsepower at top end but I will lose a bit more torque overall across the curve.  He thinks dropping from a 750 CFM to a 600 CFM will lose me about 10 peak horses but gain about 25-30lbs/torque.

I just don't know if I can get on board with that. Although I think the 750 is too much for my application, I was thinking a 660-670 CFM. Thoughts?

Anyway - I'll be making the decision over the week so I'd love to hear some input. Please remember my application - just for daily driving fun, hard punching it at the light - lots of fun, but no track days.

I went with the biggest small block dodge made - decided to stay away from the magnum engine more because of personal preference with the year of the truck - keep it all in the 70s type thing.

As far as I know we both have the same gear ratio in our trucks. I will be getting mine looked at soon and will change that as needed as well. Im hoping to keep this build under 8,000 USD but who knows, a couple beer and a bit of convincing and it just may become stroked :)







 

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Right on! Nice truck your going to build!
The 360 is a good choice.
If you want torque, it's hard to beat a stroker motor.
It will cost you $,$$$ though.
Torque is the way to be for the street and off road. It's just a lot more fun to drive and practical than a narrow band high end winder. Plus with torque you'll get better gas mileage.

And now I'll go on my normal rant.
You have to be careful on the parts you put together for a complete rebuild.
A correct balance of these parts will make you really happy. A mis- mash of stuff will make you miserable.
Look at the way production engines are built today.
They have hydraulic roller cams. They have closed chambered aluminum heads. They have "reverse domed" pistons. And they run like wild apes compared to the engines from 20 to 50 years ago.
Granted they have a lot of computer controlled devices. But you can duplicate that basic build... and you should if you want a decent performer.
I would highly recommend you read a lot. Start here... http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/index.php
These guys have some good basic ideas of what works together.
Take it from me a guy who has had 3- 360 Small Blocks and 3- 440 stroker Big Blocks in my truck over the last 45+ years. I've made mistakes along the way both with the Small Blocks and with the Big Blocks.
I've learned the hard and expensive way of what not to do. AND what to do.
Take you time before you spend the money.
And save to buy the best stuff first... instead of wishing you didn't buy the compromise the first time around.
You can always paint the aluminum heads the same color as the rest of the engine to make them look stock. ;)
 

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I would not turn my nose up at the Magnum heads, especially if you are looking at buying aftermarket heads anyway.  The LA engines can't really hold a candle to the Magnum versions and they really wake up with the right mods.

X2 on Hughes, they really seem to know their stuff and who I would be going to for a cam if I were building an engine now.
 

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an old school way of testing ideas , go to the extreem so you can see the difference made , then adjust . Installing a small 2 brl  bbd on a warmed 360 the truck had the ability to be driven in high gear ( 1/1 4th ) at 10 mph AND accelerate reasonable from there ! Torque !  BUT when you went to pass on the highway at 65mph , it ran out of air, accelerated TOO slowly .
so adjusting to a 600 cfm 4 bbrl should be good .

sound : run large diameter single exhaust , 3 inch or better , base tone MUCH better . duals and headers not necessary , great for high rpm applications  though .
 

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They make Magnum-type heads with an LA bolt pattern so you can keep everything the same otherwise. The head is the real secret to power in these engines.
 

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dodge82273 said:
an old school way of testing ideas , go to the extreem so you can see the difference made , then adjust . Installing a small 2 brl bbd on a warmed 360 the truck had the ability to be driven in high gear ( 1/1 4th ) at 10 mph AND accelerate reasonable from there ! Torque ! BUT when you went to pass on the highway at 65mph , it ran out of air, accelerated TOO slowly .
so adjusting to a 600 cfm 4 bbrl should be good .

sound : run large diameter single exhaust , 3 inch or better , base tone MUCH better . duals and headers not necessary , great for high rpm applications though .
Yep. I'll never forget the sound of my stock single exhaust when I first drove my truck home.
Perhaps it was because I was so excited to get my new truck.
If you want more performance... you'll need to go dual.
Now when I drive through parking lots, I set off car alarms.
I tried to quiet it down... it's just hard to contain Mopar horsepower. ;D
 

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Been looking at them for the last year and I'm guessing PowerWorld Heads are probably rebranded speedmasters. There are several companies now that are selling speedmasters under different names. Basically Chinese heads. From what I've read they are no Edelbrock but they are a pretty good bang for your buck if on a budget. You can find them cheaper on eBay than ordering from powerworld. If your mechanic has first hand knowledge on the powerworlds that's contrary to what I've said let me know. Probably getting myself a set of chinesiums this summer.

Another option instead of the Powerworlds or eBay is Moparts

http://mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html

Once again pretty much rebranded speedmasters but complete pair of heads setup to your cam for $894usd. They also offer porting and machining services. I'm leaning hard towards Moparts in my own search so far since I think this is best bang for the buck on the market right now that I've found. The only problem with Moparts is the listing is for bigblock heads and you have a small block. Never know though if you call they might have smalls.

In regards to carb size what he is probably getting at is that if you over carb the engine chasing that last 20HP your part throttle low RPM response is going to suffer. Better off going with a moderate size if your not lead footed doing WOT all day. I've switched to a Fitech (which is getting turfed for a Sniper that's in the mail) but if I were to go back to a carb I would give the Edelbrock AVS2 a whirl. 650cfm, so it splits the difference between you and your builder and the sales pitch on the brochure looks pretty good saying it gives better low end throttle response.
 

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Elwenil said:
I would not turn my nose up at the Magnum heads, especially if you are looking at buying aftermarket heads anyway. The LA engines can't really hold a candle to the Magnum versions and they really wake up with the right mods.

X2 on Hughes, they really seem to know their stuff and who I would be going to for a cam if I were building an engine now.
Yes look into those heads.
I've not worked with them, but if they're not a closed chambered style... I'd be wary with today's fuels.
You want the swirl effect. Along with reverse dome pistons to keep your cylinder pressure up... but not way up. Open chambered heads don't work well in today's real world driving.
Remember... cylinder pressure makes lots of torque.
Hopefully your engine builder/ machinist knows how to cypher the correct way to get the right pressure.
If not, search for one that knows.
When I went to my engine machinist, he asked me all the right questions before I could tell him what I wanted.
He was concerned what I was trying to do. What type of heads I was running. My cam choice. Induction. Exhaust. Gearing. He immediately went to a JE pistion catalog to find the correct pistons to run.
Piston/ Head choice/ Cam are crucial for the right combination to get it right the first time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the help guys - much appreciated

I will hear back from my builder this week to get an idea of where we are going with this.
The 360 block is now sonic tested, cleaned up and bored 30 over.

I submitted via email this to him the other day on what Im thinking-  we'll see what he says in return

Intake:
Edelbrock 3776 (Non-RPM model) (Do I need EGr or can I just remove that as Id like to)'

Heads:
Edelbrock Complete Heads 60779 with Ports Matched or the Powerworld equivalents depending how much cheaper those are. Stats are pretty much the same though

Cam
Comp Cam Xtreme Energy XE2774 hydralic flat tappet
0.490/0.490 lift  274/286  110 lobe separation  (Should give a lot of low end torque, sound great, and run good from 0-5,000RPM which is my goal)

Pistons
Hypereutestic Pistons (Keith Blacks/equivalent or better) Goal is for 9.5:1 or 10:1 compression - let the builder decide which ones work best
2200-2400 RPM Stall Converter

Using existing Crank and Rods if they check out to be fine.

Just posted another post regarding my gear ratio:
Sadly its a 3.21

If it'll work for now, great, if not - I might as well start shopping for 4.10s or something.
I
 

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I'm glad your going with the (best) aluminum heads. If that's an option for you. They will be more expensive than the (decent) iron ones.
Watch your piston choice though.
You can't (well... you shouldn't ) just slap any old piston in the engine.
Your machinist should know how to select the proper ones for your head to get the compression/ cylinder pressure where you need it.
With aluminum you can go higher with your cylinder pressure. In fact, to take advantage of those heads you want to lean towards the 10 to 1 ratio than the 9.5 to 1. Unless you go the iron route. Then you need to stay closer to the 9.5 to 1.
I wouldn't get to hung up on the Kieth Black pistons either. JE may have over the counter pistons that will have exactly what you want without custom machining to get what you want. A cheaper alternative.
From experience, I personally would stay away from the hydraulic flat tappet cam. Your looking for trouble down the line with that choice. Or maybe even during the break in! As I mentioned above, and with many others out there today, the risk of wiping a cam out because of the no zinc oil is a real thing. Especially when you want to run a little more potent cam/ springs.
Heck... there are horror stories out there from guys with stock cams getting wiped out these days.
Yep... hydraulic roller cams cost more but they have a lot more advantages. Big #1- no cam break in.
#2 Don't be scared with going a little beefier on you cam lift. Take advantage of you better flowing heads! A hydraulic roller will allow you a safe way to do this without big spring rates. Don't get carried away with the duration. A rule of thumb for lots of torque= high lift/ short duration.
Remember how I mentioned how all the new engines are built today?
You should follow what works best... or pay a lot more later with problems.
You spent the money on decent- Iron/ really good- Aluminum heads... if you have to wait to get a hydraulic roller cam because of funds... then wait and save to do it right the first time.
My opinion... for whatever that's worth. ;D

EGR sucks. But if you live where smog inspections are strict and required... you're stuck with it.
Otherwise get rid of it.
That gear ratio will work until you can afford to change them.
It depends on your tire size.
 
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