Dodge RamCharger Central banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an old 3spd manual from a late 70's D100 with the mexican 6 (teeped over seex) I like to run a 727 with reverse manual valve body. so my idea is this: with the manual valve body, i dont need the tail shaft housing or governor or speedo gear. so i want to shorten the output shaft on the 727, make an adapter to the 3 spd manual (i'll have to shorten the input shaft) and then to an NP 205. but i also want to shorten up the manual trans too. i dont know off the top of my head if i can. if anyone knows of someone running a setup like this, let me know. i'd rather stick with ma mopar parts, cuz thats what i got around. any useful ideas or insights welcome, as well as any web sights where i might find out more info. i think if i can get through this it will my rig to be extremely versatile. i'll also document everything and post a big freekin how to. later. . . ringo

hmm. . . i probably have to make it seal somehow too ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,581 Posts
you want to run two transmissions, one auto and one manual? never seen or heard of this, and im not too sure why you would want that.

Duane
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
Well my friend has a Toyota, used to be a Corolla, now it is his tractor. Basically took the front suspension, engine and trans and put it in a home built chassis. it is a 4 or 5 speed. It is mated to a 3 speed Dodge trans that he just leaves in first. It comes out of that into a Ford rearend that he narrowed. has a mini dump box on it. He just uses it around the yard for stuff.

But the 3 speed is shortened without a tailshaft. I guess that was the point.

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
alot of really hardcore guys run this cuz you can run huge tires and keep like a 4.10 or taller gear for speed, but stiil be able to gear down for rocks and stuff. you do not need too clutch the stick trans cuz you are still running a torque convertor. you only shift the manual trans when stopped. ive wheeled with people who were running a similar setup and love it to death. think about it: high speed gearing for sand and stuff, but how many different low range options do you have? think outside the box. you dont need to waste your time and mine posting comments like "it wont work." but if you have any valuable insights, let me know. email direct if you cant quite understand why i want this setup and ill explain, but i dont want to over fill this board. [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,581 Posts
ive seen TONS and TONS of hardcore guys run 2 transfer cases, even 3 or 4, but not 2 transmissions. not saying it wont work, because anything is possible, but there are easier options to achieve the same thing.

Duane
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,489 Posts
There was a company Bradnob gear in Colorado that built a "Doubler " The one I saw was on a long bed dodge bolted between the trans(435) and the T-case(203) It was baised off of a Fuller-Eaton 5 speed. It still had all forward gears just no reverce and it was air shifted. So it was an underdrive and an overdrive in one unit. It was a verry cool design I've searched for the company and cant find them anymore.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,231 Posts
With two 3 speed trannys and a transfer case, you will have 12 gears, but you will not have an overdrive. (Top gear for all three is 1:1)

The potential problems I see with this are, trying to adapt these trannys together, the long linkages that you need to shift, and the overall length of the trannys and t-case, which means a very short rear driveshaft and a very long front driveshaft.

Ed

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Actually, if you do not run the tailshaft housing on either trans, cut back the output shafts on both trannys and the input on the manual, the total length will not be much longer than a 727 and a divorced NP205. I dont think ill have to move the T-case back more than 3 inches. Ive wheeled with alot of people who run two transfer cases, but they are expensive, and then you only have one underdrive option. With a 3spd 727, the 3spd stick, and a 2spd NP205, you will essentially have 18 gearing options. Now I have not done the math with the ratios, so some of the different gears may actually be the same. But either way, not only is this more gearing choices, but it can be done for cheaper than a twin Tcase setup. And really, this is what makes our hobby grow. Guys figuring stuff out in their garages and backyards, making it work, and pretty soon it will on the market as a bolt on deal for anyone to enjoy.
For those of you who recieve Petersen's 4-wheel&off road, there is an advertisement for Detroit locker. there are 4 different off road rigs in the advertisement. One of those rigs is an old army green power wagon built on an articulating frame. Ive wheeled with this guy in WI. he is running a propane injected SBC which is making close to 700hp. this goes through an automatic, and then to a 4 speed stick, then through the Tcase. At the time, he was running 4.10's and 44" boggers. when the pack of trucks got to an open field, we all stopped and some of the guys were messing around and drag racing. there were alot of really built rigs there, but no one could touch this guy. but he could still gear way down in the tough stuff and climb anything.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,598 Posts
but some of those gears over lap or are the same.

so they are not all useful gears.

as long as you dont plan to shift the additional 3 spd behind it regularly but just use as a lower range its more apt to work.

and a torque converter and a clutch are not the same thing.

i have a torque converter and my trucks output will move at idlle. if output moves at idle, that means input will move at idle which means you can only shift at a complete stop unless you have some really bad ass syncros. oh ya and not just a complete stop but tf 727 in neutral as well.

one more thing to remember, that tranny came behind a slant six.

lets say your engine puts out 350ft lbs of torque. that means at peak torque your input shaft of the SL6 tranny may see well over 1500 ft lbs of torque. hope you got a good imput shaft. thats prolly why that guy chose something like an SM465 or NP435 or other heavy duty manual tranny with big imput.



it can and has been done before but only with careful thought and consideration.

love the hard core tech. forces me to think a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yeah, that much torque may cause a tranny grenade . . .i'm still researching it with a couple off road companies to see what they think.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,231 Posts
ringo said:
Actually, if you do not run the tailshaft housing on either trans, cut back the output shafts on both trannys and the input on the manual, the total length will not be much longer than a 727 and a divorced NP205.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade and I'm all for something new (You should see some of the things I'm using ;D) Just trying to be helpful.

I have a divorced t-case and just a full length fixed yoke 727 tranny. Even with the shortest tranny to t-case driveshaft, it's still long, which forces me to have a very short rear driveshaft. Your D100 is longer than my RC, but I'm figuring that two trannys will be longer than you may think, because you'll have to figure out and add the length of adaptors to the mix.

I dont think ill have to move the T-case back more than 3 inches.
I'm figuring that you hadn't made adaptors yet, and you may need to make them thicker just to support some weight and hold up to abuse.

Ive wheeled with alot of people who run two transfer cases, but they are expensive, and then you only have one underdrive option. With a 3spd 727, the 3spd stick, and a 2spd NP205, you will essentially have 18 gearing options.
And you'll have one heck of a compound low, shifting it all maybe a challenge unto itself.

Now I have not done the math with the ratios, so some of the different gears may actually be the same. But either way, not only is this more gearing choices, but it can be done for cheaper than a twin Tcase setup.
I'm not convinced that it will be cheaper than a twin t-case. You'll have more gear options, yes, but cheaper? Maybe not. You have to figure in, buying the material and making an adapter, machine work will cost you (Unless you have access to a machine shop) You'll need bearings and other parts, several crossmembers, shortened driveshafts. This project has plenty of custom fabrication in it. Custom fabrication isn't cheap unless you can do it all yourself.

And really, this is what makes our hobby grow. Guys figuring stuff out in their garages and backyards, making it work, and pretty soon it will on the market as a bolt on deal for anyone to enjoy.
And the more power to you, but you also have to figure in if it's really worth the effort and time. Theres always the possibility when going to the extremes that it all may not work as you hope. This is part of expermentation and you'll have to be willing to try it and be ready to start all over if it fails.

For those of you who recieve Petersen's 4-wheel&off road, there is an advertisement for Detroit locker. there are 4 different off road rigs in the advertisement. One of those rigs is an old army green power wagon built on an articulating frame. Ive wheeled with this guy in WI. he is running a propane injected SBC which is making close to 700hp. this goes through an automatic, and then to a 4 speed stick, then through the Tcase. At the time, he was running 4.10's and 44" boggers. when the pack of trucks got to an open field, we all stopped and some of the guys were messing around and drag racing. there were alot of really built rigs there, but no one could touch this guy. but he could still gear way down in the tough stuff and climb anything.
Heres a thought. If you really want a tranny with more gears try looking into a tranny from a medium duty truck. They come with numerous options. You can get trannys with 6-8-9 or 10 gears. (Big rigs can go up to 18 speeds) Both automatics and manuals are available. Often they have granny and overdrive. Of course they are big, and they are heavy but they may suit your needs. You can lighten them up alittle and they aren't that long. You will need to make an adapter to fit your engine, but they are also so tough that I doubt that any big block can hurt them.

I don't suggest a big rig tranny as these are bigger than a big block and twice as heavy, but the medium duties have several offerings.

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,924 Posts
Good luck. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be easier to get a doubler kit or just buy at Atlas t case or something. If you want another 3 speed stick for your project let me know Eau claire isn't that far from me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,390 Posts
Heres a thought. If you really want a tranny with more gears try looking into a tranny from a medium duty truck. They come with numerous options. You can get trannys with 6-8-9 or 10 gears. (Big rigs can go up to 18 speeds) Both automatics and manuals are available. Often they have granny and overdrive. Of course they are big, and they are heavy but they may suit your needs. You can lighten them up alittle and they aren't that long. You will need to make an adapter to fit your engine, but they are also so tough that I doubt that any big block can hurt them.

I don't suggest a big rig tranny as these are bigger than a big block and twice as heavy, but the medium duties have several offerings.

Ed
That's what I was going to suggest. My friend's dad recently bought a used 18 wheeler, and the tranny is kinda weird, but cool. It has a switch on the stick, it goes up and down. Down engages the low gears (1st, second, etc.) once you use all those up, then you flip the switch up, and you get high gears. I wish I could run something like that in my truck,would be killer on gas. But good luck with the project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Basically, my hope when i started this thread was that someone knew of this setup, or someone who runs something like it. I admit that i am a little over head, but i am not convinced that it will not work. it may even work with the slant six trans. i do not plan to shift all of this to often. basically, think of the 3spd gearbox like a doubled transfer case with a double low range. who knows, i may actually get this damn thing all built, and it will blow up the first time i can it. Yesterday i contacted two different shops who build competition trannies. as soon as i hear from them i'll post what i know, so check back often. i also have a friend who is the automotive instructor at a technical college. he loves stuff like this, and he will help me keep the cost down because of the onsight machine shop. wish me godspeed all.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top