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Topic: B.U.D. - '78 M-950 ( doubler/belly cradle )  (Read 43652 times)
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« Reply #100 on: October 28, 2009, 04:06:04 PM »

Hey Sam, have you thought about Rockwells for this build???
They would handle the power and weight better.  They would also allow the use of larger tires (i.e.  42"-47").

Here's a web site you might want to check out.

http://www.oemaxle.com/  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 04:08:37 PM by TearEmUpTim » Logged

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« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2009, 06:31:00 PM »

With 35 spline axles the hubs definitely become the weak link!  The hubs gear is just too thin with the larger axle shafts.  A good set of 4130 drive flanges is the only way to go IMHO.  Wink

good info Tim, thanks.  I'll have to add the uber flanges to the 'list'.  I did think about rockwells, but the biggest reason I decided against them was the gear ratio, and I didn't want to build a truggy.  But if I do a buggy down the road it'd likely have rocks.  The 60/70 combo will be it for the forseeable future. 
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« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2009, 08:20:27 PM »

have you thought about the dynaloc hubs? made from the same case hardend steel that they put in lockers. granted they are a little spendy but i doubt they would brake any time soon and would alow you to unlock the front axle
http://www.dynatrac.com/products_dynaloc.html
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« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2009, 08:24:00 PM »

thanks Ben - now that you show that link I think I did see those a while back.  And 'spendy' is relative when compared to the cost of an extraction Wink Grin.  I'll likely go a route similar to that.  Thanks man.
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« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2009, 10:53:48 PM »

no prob bud. im full of ideas just need money to put it into action lol
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« Reply #105 on: October 31, 2009, 02:51:20 PM »

LOL! man oh man can we all relate to that.

anyone know much about the newer ford hubs? a guy i know in vegas is using a 2009 f-250 front axle in a 77 f-250 he is converting to 4x4 and adding a cummins to. it will be a tow rig for his sand buggy so it won't see rocks really. but i wonder how strong they are? he got it used from greanleaf for $1200, not sure if that's a deal or not.
no prob bud. im full of ideas just need money to put it into action lol
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« Reply #106 on: November 2, 2009, 01:57:59 PM »

Don't really know how tough the newer Ford hubs are but I can tell you that they're  sort of an "automatic manual" if that makes any sense.

you can still lock or unlock like a conventional lockout but you just have the choice of "auto" or "lock".

When the hub is in the auto position it locks in whenever the t-case is put in 4wd and they are vacuum acutated. (ie: wimpy vacuum lines running out to the knuckles.) In auto mode sometimes they work, sometimes they don't lock. and sometimes they don't unlock.

In "lock" mode everything is locked up like a regular locking hub.

I've also seen ones where they are not vacuum actuated.

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« Reply #107 on: November 4, 2009, 09:25:04 AM »

Hey Sam!

I'm at the point right now in my build that I need to make a decision on front leaves.  I had initially gone with the 6" Superlift springs and longer shackles, but just found out they are a bad batch of assymetrical "made in india" springs.  As a result, I'm looking at other options.

Are the 13511 56" procomps you're putting in the front a symmetrical spring?  I see you moved the rear hanger underneath the body mount.  Are you going to extend the front as well?

Is it best to shim the spring with an angle wedge to get the castor right, or do you just "make" the castor right by getting the rear/front hanger heights correct?  Is desired castor around 4° or so for these trucks?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get some info on the front end.

I did make a pretty neat excel sheet that calculates spring rates, bending stress, and deflection if you're interested...

Thanks!

--Eric
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« Reply #108 on: November 4, 2009, 11:18:35 AM »

curious, is superlift acknowledging the issue and doing anything for you?
Hey Sam!

I'm at the point right now in my build that I need to make a decision on front leaves.  I had initially gone with the 6" Superlift springs and longer shackles, but just found out they are a bad batch of assymetrical "made in india" springs.  As a result, I'm looking at other options.

Are the 13511 56" procomps you're putting in the front a symmetrical spring?  I see you moved the rear hanger underneath the body mount.  Are you going to extend the front as well?

Is it best to shim the spring with an angle wedge to get the castor right, or do you just "make" the castor right by getting the rear/front hanger heights correct?  Is desired castor around 4° or so for these trucks?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get some info on the front end.

I did make a pretty neat excel sheet that calculates spring rates, bending stress, and deflection if you're interested...

Thanks!

--Eric
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« Reply #109 on: November 11, 2009, 01:47:57 PM »

man, we are just now getting down to the 60's. those tracks are cool.

sam, how are you going to protect that front locker set up? build some armor for it?
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« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2009, 09:58:16 AM »

max when you test fitted the procomp springs (13511) into the front do you put the long end towards the front of the vehicle or towards the rear. i got mine the week and test fitted them with long end towards the front. to get a decent shackle angle the front mount is out past the frame about 4". and the axle moved about 4" also. which in my case is not a prob, i have extended it (frame)to mount a winch already. the reason i ask is after thinking about it i was worried about how much slip in the driveshaft and axle movement i will get as the spring compresses? or if i should turn the springs around and move the shackle mount back. again no real problem. one reason i was thinking of short side to rear was to help on pinion climb like rear springs in your duster/demon. sorry no pics hopefully will have camera and lifetime supporter by Xmas.
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« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2009, 11:29:44 AM »

honestly I haven't got that far yet Wink, but my initial w.a.g. is that I'll keep the long side rearward and make an Uber front mount (much like aspoonhour did on his last project 'Zero') and incorporate the front winch within the front leaf mounts.....something like that.  

My plan at this point is to mount the 13511's 'as required' in order to get the axle centered in the stock location, and fab the front/rear mounts and shackles accordingly.  The truck will definitely have some nice lift, and I like that Cool

sam, how are you going to protect that front locker set up? build some armor for it?

Sorry about the delay Dave Grin - yah I'm planning some kind of front armor, but I'll also still have the crosslink for the steering and ram-assist.  I've about decided against full-hydro in lieu of trying to determine what was wrong with my ram-assist - I think it was a combination of a stock pump and very hot fluid (it boiled out on Spring Creek), so a cooler is definitely in the X-mas list.  But yah I'll have some sort of additional armor on the front diff to pump up the 'impact resistance' Wink
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« Reply #112 on: December 2, 2009, 01:35:40 PM »

so after some thorough discussions I've decided to keep my doubler gig as-is and not mess with trying to fabricate some kind of custom tranny output shaft or fancy 203 input shaft - just isn't prudent...especially since the current setup ain't 'broke.  I'm trying really hard to KISS - Keep It Simple Sam  Grin.

At this point it looks like the steering will be the current ram-assist but I'll upgrade to the PSC pump and some hardware.  Hydroboost brakes will definitely go in and I think I'll keep it all-Dodge ala ~'98 Ram.  I acquired the 'bed' about amonth ago on the GSL website but I'm still waiting for the paperwork to clear so I can go pick it up.  Thankfully it's sitting in the DRMO lot at Ft Carson - about 45 minutes away Agree.  No pics yet - military bases kinda frown on that sort of thing Wink.  Might try to grab a M105 trailer to pull behind Bud to carry the ATV or, more likely, lots of landscaping stuff - our house is nearly done and we gota lots of landscaping to do, and a big strong military trailer would do well for carrying around lots of rock, timbers, plants, whatever, especially if I did the dump-bed thing Agree.

Also looks like I'll take Nacho's A-518 and stuff it up under Red (I'm really wanting an overdrive under there), and I'll rebuild my core 518 for Bud.  I'll do a couple bits of voodoo, mainly for better oiling and cooling, add a new DTT converter, bolt up the doubler (with adaptors) and call it good Pope.

Truck's really gonna be fun - me and my lady are really stoked, especially me!  Gonna be a lot of 'Jeep' in this truck.  Should be fun Cool

- M2
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« Reply #113 on: December 2, 2009, 02:05:15 PM »

sounds good sam. no need to apologize.  Wink
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« Reply #114 on: December 4, 2009, 09:31:44 AM »

lol @ K.I.S.S.= keeping it simple sam haha laughter as i chuckle.....i havent seen anything simple from you yet.... just kiddin... your speaking of land scaping project i have alot of family down there and there good at it . grab the first mexican  just tell him you know Juan and hell come fix your yard . Grin
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« Reply #115 on: December 4, 2009, 09:35:51 AM »

 Grin Grin - lol!  Hey I'm tryin' my hardest not to complicate Bud any more than I have to....tryin'.  We'll see how it turns out - it's gonna be a big Dodge, with some Jeep mixed in......aaaand a big slug of 'monster truck' mixed in (for flavor )....all dipped in Air Force Strata Blue Cool.  What's cool is Trevor's M-37 (with a sweet 4bt Cummins, A-518, and a NWF black box/205 doubler) is also gonna be Strata Blue  Cool  We gonna have some fun with these rigs!  Cruise

Looks also like Nacho's tranny is going in Red ('cause I want the overdrive pretty bad, and Nacho's tranny is already built, and it has a DTT converter...), and I'll build my core 518 for Bud.  Should be fun - never built an auto tranny...but Andy has.....  Wink
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« Reply #116 on: December 4, 2009, 08:26:03 PM »

 First off thanks Sam, for all your cool projects. I noticed you touched on a possible dump bed for the trailer, off the shelf hydraulic or some Sam voodoo? I have a donor truck I have been considering making a trailer out of when I'm all done and was thinking of just using a winch and stand pole.
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« Reply #117 on: December 4, 2009, 09:07:42 PM »

  off the shelf hydraulic or some Sam voodoo?

probably a little of both Tongue.  I picked up a full hydraulic tilt bed kit many years ago - never put it in anything (different project long ago that never happened....).  I don't even remember what make/model it is, but I remember it was complete but generic.  Our land is pretty near 'blank' - we have lots of 'scaping in front of us, and I'm pretty certain we'll want/need a sturdy trailer that'll handle some weight - it should be perfect for a dump setup.  The M-105 trailers are all that, and cheap, and it'll look cool being tugged behind Bud too Grin.
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« Reply #118 on: December 4, 2009, 09:39:56 PM »

it'll look cool being tugged behind Bud too Grin.
I'm sure it will, cant wait to see it.
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« Reply #119 on: December 7, 2009, 09:42:05 PM »

I've been pondering the benefits of mounting the rear leaf springs inboard a bit, directly under the frame.  As I understand, doing so narrows the track width making the truck a bit less 'stable' but more 'forgiving' on twistability, increasing flex and travel.  There won't be any lift blocks - it'll be direct-to-axle, so the stability should still be pretty good.
I presume 'towing potential' may decrease a bit....buuuut I'm not too concerned about that.  And since I need to cut/reweld the spring perches and fab up some custom leaf mounts anyway....maybe move 'em in and gain some free traction???

thoughts from the congregation??
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« Reply #120 on: December 8, 2009, 05:55:19 AM »

Sam,
When I had my 1964 CJ5 & used it for motocross racing Roll Eyes, You get the idea. I took the stock rear springs out & changed them for the jeep comando springs. These springs were a wider leaf & a longer leaf & also fewer leafs so it gave me a softer ride but with the wider leaf it gave me the same weight carrying capacity. The biggest thing was I spread the springs 5" farther apart on the axle/frame. I had the springs within 1" of the tires & they never hit the tires. That CJ was SOOOOO stable after that that I couldn't believe it was the same vehicle. It lost the body roll that these vehicles are famous for & it made it so stable & safe.I loss the feel of a roll over all the time. I think it was the biggest/fastest improvement I ever made to that vehicle.
I wouldn't go narrower on the rear spring spread.
Jim

PS; In the woods it still flexed really good for a vehicle built 20 years ago.
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« Reply #121 on: December 8, 2009, 07:34:30 PM »

fair enough - I had heard it can really aid rear flex, but I'm not convinced it'd be worth the effort......and in light of my KISS principle I'll likely just leave it alone.  Hell the 63's should give me all I want anyway... Smiley
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« Reply #122 on: December 15, 2009, 01:18:09 AM »

Don't really know how tough the newer Ford hubs are but I can tell you that they're  sort of an "automatic manual" if that makes any sense.

you can still lock or unlock like a conventional lockout but you just have the choice of "auto" or "lock".

When the hub is in the auto position it locks in whenever the t-case is put in 4wd and they are vacuum acutated. (ie: wimpy vacuum lines running out to the knuckles.) In auto mode sometimes they work, sometimes they don't lock. and sometimes they don't unlock.

In "lock" mode everything is locked up like a regular locking hub.

I've also seen ones where they are not vacuum actuated.

Devin



The 1999-2010 Superdutys had the vacuum/manual hubs if you bought the transfer case that had the control knob on the dash.....these hubs are junk with constant vacuum leaks in the axles so at least they thought enough ahead to design them so you could still manually lock them.  

The standard floor shift transfer case like my 07 F-350 has runs the full manual hub.

Bluebuster,

I hope you're buddy realizes by using that 09 Superduty axle that it has a bastard 8 on 170mm bolt pattern instead of the standardized 8 on 6.5" that the 70's, 80's and early-mid 90's use.  2005-2010 axles require a MINIMUM 17 inch wheel to clear the brake calipers and the crappy unit bearing these things use don't take kindly to oversize tires.  Hell they barely last 80-90K miles with stock tires and a Powerstroke sitting on top of them.  Dynatrac makes a conversion kit to convert to tapered wheel bearings and upgrades the outer stub shafts & does away with the cheap plastic and pot metal lockouts but it's gonna set him back 2 grand for the parts.

Mad Max

Sorry to get off topic on your thread.....I'm really liking the plans I'm seeing for this build up Agree Beer
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« Reply #123 on: December 15, 2009, 11:51:02 AM »

yea, i aske him about that. he already figured that and went back and bought the whole truck. the cummins is going into his brother's 87 dodge W-350 now. he is putting the 6.0 diesel complete drivetrain in his truck.  so they are both happy.
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« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2009, 07:44:34 PM »

    ...the parts acquisition continues...

 - paperwork finally cleared, got onto Ft Carson without issue, and picked up Bud's 'bed' this afternoon.........and then it joined the party out with the other misfit toys.

1968 CASE M101a1 trailer, pretty dern'd good shape.  Should work awesome.  And, the remaining trailer chassis...well that's gonna morph into a water buffalo.







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« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2009, 08:35:49 PM »

That should look good. Have you figured out how close to centered the wheels will be in the wells? The bases up here frequently have them for auction. I've been considering replacing the rotted to hell bed on my 73 crew with one.
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« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »

you are gathering the recipe quite nicely sam. a little winter seasoning under the tarps and start mixing in the spring?  Grin should turn out delicious.  Wink
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« Reply #127 on: December 26, 2009, 03:42:28 PM »

Sam, you should have picked up two of those trailers.....one to cannibalize for the bed and put some off road tires on the other to make a cool off road pack mule trailer Cool
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« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2009, 11:31:36 PM »

Sam, you should have picked up two of those trailers.....one to cannibalize for the bed and put some off road tires on the other to make a cool off road pack mule trailer Cool

...actually we're thinking about using a M-105, the slightly bigger version, for that Wink Agree
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« Reply #129 on: December 29, 2009, 03:02:29 AM »

nice find. what system did you use to get it?

you figure out if your going to use hydroboost or not? i been thinking about it for mine and i think i might use a electric hydroboost design from http://www.abspowerbrake.com/index.html

stacy david used it on copper head.
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« Reply #130 on: December 29, 2009, 05:23:07 AM »

Sam I have a brand new set of those taillights if you decide to change them I bought them and the flush mount buckets from a H1 to go on my Wrangler but never got to install them before I sold the Jeep.
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« Reply #131 on: December 29, 2009, 06:51:27 AM »

Sam,
your Bud project sounds like it's going to be one wild unit and by the parts you've collected so far when its complete is going to be all business. i can't wait to see what wild creation you transform bud into....... Popcorn Popcorn
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« Reply #132 on: January 1, 2010, 02:39:48 AM »

Just found this build. Good going. We will have to see who gets their cummins crews on the road first. Cool
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« Reply #133 on: January 2, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »

a couple pics someone sent me, looks like they used a trailer for the bed also





and heres a different truck

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« Reply #134 on: January 2, 2010, 12:58:21 PM »

a couple pics someone sent me, looks like they used a trailer for the bed also







LOL....they look vaguely familiar.... Think Think....now where have I seen those before?....oh yeah, lol....

Pineland Bob's Dodge Crew....(More Pics)(Updated 09-04-09)....
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« Reply #135 on: January 2, 2010, 10:00:57 PM »

 
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« Reply #136 on: January 3, 2010, 07:18:39 PM »

After seeing Nacho come together, BUD should be awesome!  Agree
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« Reply #137 on: January 3, 2010, 09:09:02 PM »

at first sight of Bob's mil-spec crewcab (thanks to squads51  Wink ) I knew immediately which direction I wanted to go with Bud.  Bud's gonna look 'similar' to Bob's 'Beast', but I've promised him it will indeed be 'different' Wink.  

It's gonna have the original spirit of this -



...with some of the utility aspect of this -



...with the durability and charm of this -



...with a nice subtle hint of this (my all-time very favorite of 'them' all) -



...and at first glance it'll generally look sorta like this (but different) -



Should be fun  Cool
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« Reply #138 on: January 4, 2010, 09:59:13 AM »

hey max 2nd pic of tubed bed crew cab is that a build on pirate 4x4 it looks like it ?
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« Reply #139 on: January 4, 2010, 10:34:40 AM »

yup, that's jensenkennels' rig  Wink
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« Reply #140 on: January 4, 2010, 12:47:05 PM »

Can't wait to see this truck I love crew cabs and hope to have another one soon.
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« Reply #141 on: January 5, 2010, 09:09:06 AM »

yup, that's jensenkennels' rig  Wink
i love the burrito oven on it lol.........you doing the same ...jk lol
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« Reply #142 on: January 7, 2010, 05:36:21 PM »

we have a couple of...umm 'unique' features for it, but the basic truck should be pretty simple and all business.  I'm building it simple enough so that anyone could get in, turn the key, and go.  Simple enough for a kid to drive it....if they can climb in.  The chassis will be very strong, but also very simple, and unlike Nacho the center of gravity should be pretty low.  About the only thing that'll be up high will be the minigun (woah did I say that out loud?!!) 
I'm really looking forward to having room for 4 adults and room for all the crap in the bed, particularly messy stuff that we don't want inside the cab.
It'll basically be all one color - yes I'm going to paint it, but it won't have custom stripes, etc - it'll all be AF Blue - simple to touch-up, and trail rash will be 'expected status'.  No tilt front clip, no super truck stuff. 
My wife and I have plenty of kewl custom work going into her '68 Charger "Trigger" - what'll very likely be the best and baddest of the fleet  Cool .
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« Reply #143 on: January 7, 2010, 09:48:02 PM »

we have a couple of...umm 'unique' features for it, but the basic truck should be pretty simple and all business.  I'm building it simple enough so that anyone could get in, turn the key, and go.  Simple enough for a kid to drive it....if they can climb in.  The chassis will be very strong, but also very simple, and unlike Nacho the center of gravity should be pretty low.  About the only thing that'll be up high will be the minigun (woah did I say that out loud?!!) 
I'm really looking forward to having room for 4 adults and room for all the crap in the bed, particularly messy stuff that we don't want inside the cab.
It'll basically be all one color - yes I'm going to paint it, but it won't have custom stripes, etc - it'll all be AF Blue - simple to touch-up, and trail rash will be 'expected status'.  No tilt front clip, no super truck stuff. 
My wife and I have plenty of kewl custom work going into her '68 Charger "Trigger" - what'll very likely be the best and baddest of the fleet  Cool .

Just curious....since you are going that route now, does that mean the mount for the GAU is now available?....just wanted to ask in case I may need to harden the mounting points for the pedestal in the bed of mine.... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #144 on: January 7, 2010, 11:32:54 PM »

 Grin - I wish Wink.  As much as I'd love to cut felled trees in half with a gun, I'm afraid that trail accessory will have to remain on the dream list and do it the old fashioned way with a winch Wink
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« Reply #145 on: January 8, 2010, 12:32:54 AM »

man, don't tease us with the mini gun stuff. you can get non firing M-2's i do believe. not sure what kind of permits are needed. would definitely keep the tailgaters away. 
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« Reply #146 on: January 8, 2010, 01:45:45 AM »

I built a Semi Auto 1919 in .308 and while it's costly to feed it's damm fun 2 of them would do the trick  Cool
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« Reply #147 on: January 8, 2010, 07:50:50 AM »

man, don't tease us with the mini gun stuff...

....well...at least not a real one...
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« Reply #148 on: January 22, 2010, 12:36:46 PM »

bump.  updates?
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« Reply #149 on: January 22, 2010, 02:22:12 PM »

not a lot lately - been tied up hard core gettin' our house finished, which we did!  Over past two weeks we've slammed down right around 1600 ft/sq of tile ourselves - saved over $15k vice the builder doing it Agree, plus we wanted some personal sweat equity in the project. 

Closed on it and got 'da keys this past Tuesday - whoop!! Win.  My Mom and Dad flew in and will be here for a few weeks to help my wife and I both move in and break in the place.  Pretty fun time Smiley
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