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Topic: B.U.D. - '78 M-950 ( doubler/belly cradle )  (Read 43663 times)
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« Reply #50 on: October 5, 2009, 07:56:23 AM »

Check out hydratechbraking.com . They have assist units that don't require engine vacuum. Thought it was pretty cool, figured I'd share.    Bill
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« Reply #51 on: October 5, 2009, 10:37:40 AM »

cool site, thanks Bill.  They list stuff for the musclecars but I bet they have something real similar for trucks - probably the same parts.
This'll be an interesting conversion - I'm excited to 'feel' the results.
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« Reply #52 on: October 5, 2009, 12:10:18 PM »

a couple of ?? on your test fit of the 56" springs. 1. those were procomp 13511 correct? 2. the centering pin is not offset? 28" of spring both in front and behind the pin correct? 3. have you moved the front axle (itself) forward from stock location (IE. still centered in wheelwell).

by the way i probably won't be doing my spring switch till feb. i have other things to do on the rc before that and when you are an over the road truck driver time for wrenching goes by quickly. 2-3 days a month.

one last ? for now,do you have problems with your jackstands sinking or was the ground already frozen? my "shop" looks like yours in the test pics except soft sand.  Sad
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« Reply #53 on: October 5, 2009, 12:23:03 PM »

yeah those were the 13511's.  IIRC on the spring itself the pin is not centered - it's off by ~4 inches towards the front, but overall to keep the pin centered to stock Dodge the whole leaf pack will have to come forward ~ 3-4 inches from stock.  It's something like that - I haven't got the precise specs yet but I think I'll have them come Jan/Feb '10.  The biggest piece of this puzzle is going to be moving the front mount forward and down to level out the spring enough to compensate for the big extra length at the rear shackle and still keep the caster angle square.  That's going to be the big trick, and it'll likely involve a big beefy front mount, but since I'm going there anyway I figure it'll work itself out.

On the sinking stands - yeah they sank a little but the ground held pretty good.  It's not frozen yet but it's only sandy on the surface.  So far so good Wink
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« Reply #54 on: October 5, 2009, 04:17:45 PM »

Sam check this out on the ZF pump.

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/zf-hydraulic-pump-hydro-boost-install-t252825.html?t=252825
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« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2009, 08:08:13 PM »

Thanks Jim - good stuff there.  I've bene thinking about omitting the vacuum pump all together on this rig - I don't think I'll need it and I'd be happy to eliminate the hardware - one less thing to hang off the gearcase.

I'm been looking at all manner of front lockers and I'm thinking about going with an Ox Locker.  I really like the cable-operated nature of it, especially the ability to pin it 'locked' if the cable breaks, etc.  I think it along with the 35-spline axle upgrades aught to make the front end pretty stout.  
http://www.4wheelparts.com/prodDetail.aspx?partNo=OXLOXD60C456H-35&jeep-parts=true

It's a bit spendy but you get what you pay for, and I think it'll be worth it in the end.  I definitely like the 'simple' nature of it - the shifter cable mounts in the cab - manually 'shifting/engaging' the front locker sounds pretty bueno to me Agree.

The rear end is getting a detroit - simple and beefy.  And thanks to 'SuperBurban' I also think I found a good bed - I may go have a look later this week.  

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« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2009, 03:54:14 AM »

There's a lot of thought/decisions that has to go into the build at the stage you're at now. The Ox should be a good locker for you, Especially with the weight on the front end with the 6BT. Have you checked with Lanty AKA"Elwein" ( http://www.stullunlimited.com/ ) for your D60 parts? He does some Awesome pricing & great customer service!!
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« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2009, 01:19:44 PM »

Please keep us posted about the OX lockers. These are on my "WANT!"-list too...
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« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2009, 01:50:14 PM »

A note on the OX lockers, they are good lockers when they work. when i worked at the 4x4 shop there was a guy who had a jeep with them in front and rear. he wasnt mechanicaly inclined at all so we were always working on them. they wouldnt lock, u could put the lever into the locked position and the slider wouldnt slide all the way over. we adjusted the cables every which way you could and eventually we could get them to lock about 70% of the time. eventually we took them both off.  but anyway the biggest problem i found with them is IMO they work backwards. the cable PUSHES the slider over to lock it and PULLS with the help of a spring when it unlocks. again IMO and you can take it for what its worth( sometimes its not much lol) they should PULL with the cable to lock it and PUSH to unlock using the spring to do most of the work.

if you want a selectable locker im a fan of the ARB air locker. the electric locker is junk as far as im concerned.
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« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2009, 03:20:15 PM »



if you want a selectable locker im a fan of the ARB air locker. 


I agree, as long as an ARB is installed correctly I think they are the best working and most proven selectable locker.
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« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2009, 04:00:46 PM »

every time i see some one fiddleing around on the trail with some thing under the rig its usually a ox locker.
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« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2009, 04:40:04 PM »

that was the one thing that had me concerned was the fact that it 'pushes' into gear instead of pulling - not like engaging a 205.  Well I'm certainly confident in yer inputs fellas, and after the dismal results of the eaton e-unit now, ARB sounds pretty bueno.  Guess I'll be looking that way - now to upgrade the axles and hubs and I'll be in good shape.  Gotta finish the house first, so this gig will be 'in work' until then.  Any pro's or con's between a new or used ARB?  I think I found a used detroit for the rear...
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« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2009, 04:54:54 PM »

Unless it was a smokin' deal or I knew the installer and driver of the used ARB I'd go new.
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« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2009, 06:38:08 PM »

cool stuff sam.  question for you sam. you had a Detroit in the rear of nacho right? how did it do on the hwy? any weird tire wear or bad handling habits? i am thinking about one in my truck but wanted some input. i want an arb in the front eventually.
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« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2009, 06:52:19 PM »

doesnt matter what is in the front as long as the hubs are unlocked.

driving down the highway in snow in 4 high with a front detroit? sketchy at best.

mine is welded but on the road it doesnt matter with th ehubs unlocked.
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« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2009, 07:33:58 PM »

copy all.  Dave, no the rear is actually a pretty stout factory lim slip - as best I could tell off road it'd crank 'em both every time, and on the road it was great.  I'm planning to put it in my other RC with the D71.
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« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2009, 07:44:09 PM »

since you are goin with an ARB heres and idea for a powerful and reliable air compressor for your cummins. look into gettin a compressor off a garbage truck. most of the ones ive seen have air brakes and 5.9s
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« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2009, 10:49:23 PM »

yea, i don't have that worry now that i don't live in pahrump any more. but who knows where i may move to. i don't think i'd ever do that in the front regardless. i'll save my money for the arb.
doesnt matter what is in the front as long as the hubs are unlocked.

driving down the highway in snow in 4 high with a front detroit? sketchy at best.

mine is welded but on the road it doesnt matter with th ehubs unlocked.
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« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2009, 02:48:26 PM »

well I can cross lockers off the list.  After some deep discussions with my diff guy and a nice test drive, and after selling some hardware from Nacho, I picked up the front and rear lockers.  Out back - Detroit Locker.  In front - Detroit Electrac - essentially a Detroit TrueTrac limited slip with an electronic version of an Ox.

The basic truetrac is pretty sweet - it's a fully open diff until some wheel spin is detected, then it automatically syncs into limited slip mode.  No wearable parts.  The Electrac is essentially the same diff, but with a fully-locked feature.  There is a shift fork and electric solenoid mounted behind the diff cover (similar to an Ox) that is push-button activated on-the-fly to fully lock when it's time to play.  Plus, if the wiring gets ripped off I can still go fully locked manually by removing the solenoid and inserting a pin (like an Ox), and if that doesn't work it's still a limited slip.  And since I'm doing ram-assist I'll fab up a rock shield to shield the solenoid/wiring - bonus.  This should do it.

My diff guy has the same basic combo in his truck - detroit locker in back and a truetrac in front.  He also has a snow plow hanging on the front, and he offered for me to drive it around, dirt and street, and see how it feels.  It felt great.  On the street I could feel the rear doing its thing - a little poppin' and a little jerkin', but I never noticed any issue up front.

For what I'm doing it sounds perfect.  The front is new, the rear is used, and my diff guy just happened to have both in his shop.  Got both for $1100.  

Detroit Electrac on the left, Detroit Locker on the right



 
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« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2009, 03:01:22 PM »

Nice.  Grin
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« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2009, 03:06:10 PM »

While I think the Electrac in theory is a great dif,I have concerns mainly the actuator being externally mounted also will it interfere with a hydro assist setup. I really liked the Eaton but have heard they have issues too but they may have been addressed, I read there was a minor redesign.
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« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2009, 06:20:20 PM »

 Popcorn Popcorn.... Grin....
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« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2009, 10:33:03 PM »

Nice score for the equipment.

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« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2009, 10:43:55 PM »

Now don't go and get all butt hurt,

Is this the same Diff guy that put in your last electric front locker? That worked so well for you?
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« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2009, 10:55:47 PM »

its a little late now, but i'll post it up for guys who are still looking....this impressed me pretty thoroughly. granted, i haven't driven or seen one in person, but still...Tibus Offroad Teraflex T-Locker: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-T_locker/

edited to add: it's still an external solenoid like the Electrac, but it is an air solenoid and a bit more slim-line and looks like its well protected too.
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« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2009, 08:18:52 AM »

Now don't go and get all butt hurt,

Is this the same Diff guy that put in your last electric front locker? That worked so well for you?

 Wink - no, this is the guy that 'splained to me how/why the other guy (that did my first e-locker) went out of business.  This guy - his name is Darold - has done every gearset since then Agree.  And I just found out that he lives just off the same street that we're building on - we're neighbors!

We haven't pulled the e-locker out yet to see what's wrong, but we're thinking that since it was one of the early versions that it shredded itself, or at least the little ball bearing thingies up inside either are toast or plain fell out.  We'll find out soon enough - might not be anything wrong with it except it was installed wrong.
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« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2009, 08:44:19 AM »

Wink - no, this is the guy that 'splained to me how/why the other guy (that did my first e-locker) went out of business.  This guy - his name is Darold - has done every gearset since then Agree.  And I just found out that he lives just off the same street that we're building on - we're neighbors!

We haven't pulled the e-locker out yet to see what's wrong, but we're thinking that since it was one of the early versions that it shredded itself, or at least the little ball bearing thingies up inside either are toast or plain fell out.  We'll find out soon enough - might not be anything wrong with it except it was installed wrong.
I'm glad to hear it wasn't the same guy.

So why the electrac over the ARB most people suggested?
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« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2009, 08:53:28 AM »

considering what my front diff cover looks like i would destroy the acutator on one of those with out trying.
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« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2009, 09:26:50 AM »

considering what my front diff cover looks like i would destroy the acutator on one of those with out trying.

In a previous life you were most likely a Black Smith judging by the way you like to smash metal. Grin
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« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2009, 09:28:42 AM »

In a previous life you were most likely a Black Smith judging by the way you like to smash metal. Grin

lol,i think you are right. Grin
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« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2009, 10:45:03 AM »

Darold?

Does he specialize in Toyota stuff?
He might know Tim if it's the same guy.
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« Reply #81 on: October 27, 2009, 10:55:37 AM »

I'm glad to hear it wasn't the same guy.

So why the electrac over the ARB most people suggested?

Maybe price since he got it for about the same as a detroit.
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« Reply #82 on: October 27, 2009, 11:32:18 AM »

Maybe price since he got it for about the same as a detroit.

I hope not, you generally get what you pay for, just saying.
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« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2009, 12:17:04 PM »

the rear I got for $300, the front was $800.  I actually very much like the limited slip feature up front, especially the automatic nature of it.  It'll be interesting to see how often I'll actually lock it in.  At the worst case it'll still be a lim slip, even if everything get's ripped off.  That was the main reason.  The ARB was #2.  With my kind of front end weight it should function pretty well, especially when I hang the eventual plow off the front end (mostly for our neighborhood in the winter; we're 'county' - not much in the way of plow trucks, etc.  I expect the back end to dance a bit.
I don't even think Eaton makes the Electrac now, but Darold had this one still in the box in his shop - never got a chance to install it in enything (IIRC I think someone else ordered it a while ago and the project fell through).

Not sure about the Toyota thing Dave - he does a lot of full-size rigs but I know he does 'em all.  His shop is on Ford street in the Springs, not far from Peterson AFB.  He's about the best in town.
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« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2009, 12:44:55 PM »

I hope not, you generally get what you pay for, just saying.

Well brand new they are about the same price, that doesn't mean they are equally the same performance wise. 

That certainly was a good price on that detroit.
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« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2009, 01:56:31 PM »

doesnt matter what is in the front as long as the hubs are unlocked.

35 spline axles and hubs don't go well together...  Sad
Think drive flange!  Wink

driving down the highway in snow in 4 high with a front detroit? sketchy at best.

If the snow's deep enough, that's the only way to go!!!  Grin
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« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2009, 01:59:56 PM »

Darold?

Does he specialize in Toyota stuff?
He might know Tim if it's the same guy.

The guy I know is Darrel.  He's out in Ramah.  Wink
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« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2009, 02:44:13 PM »

Personally, I love Detroits in the front with drive flanges.  With hydro steeing it's unperceivable.  I've had three rigs set up that way and I'm working on a fourth.
Disclaimer: I don't drive on the highway much...
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« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2009, 07:31:28 PM »

35 spline axles and hubs don't go well together...  Sad
Think drive flange!  Wink

I was wondering about that.  I'll certainly have enough weight and torque to break stuff, and I am upping to 35 spline gear, but I haven't looked into hubs yet.  I thought I saw matching hubs offered with the axle kits.  Tim are you saying the 35 spline hubs are less than 'enough'?


I think my biggest issue will be finding chain sets for a 38x15.5 tire... Shocked ...'course I haven't actually looked for them yet......maybe I'll just make my own.
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Wait I have one of those in the truck


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« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2009, 07:34:23 PM »

Tirechains I have V-Bar chains for my 37's
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« Reply #90 on: October 27, 2009, 07:41:29 PM »

see, there ya go - one fo the best things about this site - lots of diversity.  Ask a question, get an answer.  Thanks Bogie Agree

the v-bar does look just about right, and they look pretty dern'd good for crunching through the ice.  See, we're planning to take Bud elk hunting - one of the reasons for a 4-door and a 'pickup', and we'll likely need chains to get back up the woods, etc, or certainly be good to have them juuust in case. 

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« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2009, 07:48:42 PM »

see, there ya go - one fo the best things about this site - lots of diversity.  Ask a question, get an answer.  Thanks Bogie Agree

the v-bar does look just about right, and they look pretty dern'd good for crunching through the ice.  See, we're planning to take Bud elk hunting - one of the reasons for a 4-door and a 'pickup', and we'll likely need chains to get back up the woods, etc, or certainly be good to have them juuust in case. 


That's the exact reason I have them Sam Getting to the cabin and up the mountain for hunting season  Grin I also run a Suretrax bladder as I don't have lockers yet
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« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2009, 07:53:39 PM »

....ya know what I'd really like to do.....

http://www.mattracks.com/html/150_series.htm

they'd be so bitchin'
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« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »

I always thought those were damn cool. I first saw them in the mid 90's at a Emergency Services conference. We have a Member "Tracks" from PA that was a salesman for them and has a set or did and posted pics of them on his Ram.
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« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2009, 08:19:22 PM »

I found his pics Tracks not Tires

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« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2009, 08:41:00 PM »

now that's a thing of beauty Agree.  Man...someday.....
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« Reply #96 on: October 28, 2009, 05:10:25 AM »

That is Awesome!!

Hey Sam is it snowing?
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« Reply #97 on: October 28, 2009, 05:15:05 AM »

...just blowin' around.  Might get some accumulation, but it looks like between Denver and Cheyenne that's gettin' schwacked.  I'm very hopeful it won't adversly affect my work schedule...
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« Reply #98 on: October 28, 2009, 01:56:38 PM »

I was wondering about that.  I'll certainly have enough weight and torque to break stuff, and I am upping to 35 spline gear, but I haven't looked into hubs yet.  I thought I saw matching hubs offered with the axle kits.  Tim are you saying the 35 spline hubs are less than 'enough'?

With 35 spline axles the hubs definitely become the weak link!  The hubs gear is just too thin with the larger axle shafts.  A good set of 4130 drive flanges is the only way to go IMHO.  Wink
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« Reply #99 on: October 28, 2009, 02:50:08 PM »

I heard on the news this morning they were saying 1 to 2 feet around the Denver area.
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